On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Freddie Cash <fjwc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 6:41 AM, Julian Elischer <jul...@freebsd.org>wrote:
>> On 10/9/13 2:35 AM, Freddie Cash wrote:
>>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Alfred Perlstein <bri...@mu.org> wrote:
>>>  You're right on the money, to be honest this is one of the reasons why
>>>> I've switched to using OSX as my desktop OS.
>>>> zsh, vim, screen by default.  and upgrades work.  At the end of the day
>>>> I'm spending time doing work, not mucking about my workspace to make it
>>>> usable for development.
>>>> I think this was brought up at BSDCan in the discussion about making
>>>> FreeBSD a more featured development platform.
>>>> Speaking of... has anyone tried PCBSD?
>>> PC-BSD isn't much different from FreeBSD.  The installer is GUI and
>>> support
>>> ZFS, there are some GUI setup tools on first boot for X, there are some
>>> GUI
>>> tools to select binary drivers for X, and there ​​are working pkgng repos
>>> available.
>>> I had a lot of issues with PC-BSD 9.0 and 9.1 as I was trying to do
>>> things
>>> "the FreeBSD way" which broke a lot of things that were done "the PC-BSD
>>> way" (aka don't manually edit config files used for booting).
>>> ​Switching to the "rolling-release" (aka PC-BSD 9-STABLE) and moving all
>>> my
>>> config file edits into <filename>.conf.local fixed my issues.  Things
>>> have
>>> been running smooth, and I finally understand the beauty and simplicity
>>> of
>>> freebsd-update + pkg.  OS gets updated once per month, packages get
>>> updated
>>> twice per month, no more compiling things from source.  It's like using
>>> Ubuntu/Debian but with the power and features of FreeBSD.  :)
>>> ​
>> When they went to a ZFS-only system, using GRUB, with no alternative,
>> then I'm afraid they lost me.
>> I want a root filesystem on UFS for reliabailty and simpleness.  I can
>> debug it's media if needed.
>> Before then I really liked it (though ther eis not enough information on
>> how it works interneally if you want to use it.
>> hopefully that will come.. and I LIKE PBIs  FreeBSD should adopt PBIs for
>> sure.
>> With PBIs you could make even quite base items separately installable.
>> versioning problems go away.
> There's no GRUB in a default install of PC-BSD 9.0, 9.1, or 9.2.  Even on
> a ZFS-only setup (which is what I run).  It's using the FreeBSD loader,
> with custom artwork and menus.

​Hrm, it seems they've changed things with the 9.2 installer.  It does use
GRUB2 (ewwww!) for the boot loader, and integrates support for ZFS boot
environments (via beadm) into it.  :(  Shame they didn't use the BE support
in the FreeBSD loader for this.  Wonder if my 9-STABLE-based PC-BSD install
will get "upgraded" to GRUB?

Freddie Cash
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