Hi Alan, On Wed, 14 Sep 2011, Alan DeKok wrote:
> [...] > Or, the OP could have read the FAQ about "disabled" users. A simple > text search for "disable" would have produced an example. Like I mentioned in my response to Arran, the OP didn't mention whether he had tried anything by himself before posting to this list. Maybe he tried it but he couldn't figure out what the example was telling him (but then he could have mentioned it in his mail)? > [...] > Yes. That's the correct response to questions like "I'm too lazy to > read the docs, so you need to suggest multiple ways of solving this > problem". Same like in the post to Arran: inferring that people are "too lazy" because they haven't mentioned their own effort is not right, IMHO. I'm NOT trying to protect him; all I'm asking for is to be fair to the OP and ask him about his own effort first (i.e. check his honesty). If he then admits that he really hasn't done anything you can still come up with responses like "try harder" (or, better in such a particular case, ignore his post because then it's clearly obvious that he indeed was "too lazy"). Still better (in such a case), unsubscribe him from the list. (I honestly admit that this is OT and has nothing to do with FreeRADIUS, but rather with ways of communicating with each other, especially in writing (be it mailing list, be it forums or other means of free support). Judging from my own experience, many misunderstandings can be avoided by taking the written word literaly and in case something is not mentioned, ask for it. Assuming anything without knowing for sure may be understandable (as you've probably seen quite a few of similar posts), but it doesn't necessarily mean that such an assumption is always correct. > After 10+ years on this list, I know what the next step is. "Oh, you > gave me multiple solutions, but I don't want to do any of them because > of ther information I've kept secret until now. Please suggest other > solutions." > > i.e. if you can't be bothered to do any work to help yourself, we > can't be bothered either. Please see my paragraph above. I can understand that you are fed up with having to read a post that reads so similar like the many others you probably had to read in the past. But still it's not a good idea to assume that everybody who hasn't included detailed information about his own effort actually is "too lazy" reading the docs (it may apply in quite a few cases, but not in all of them). > That should probably be in the FAQ, or in the auto-sig for this list. IMHO, the auto-sig would be the more appropriate place since then it would be visible in the very first mail one gets after having been properly subscribed to this list. A pointer to the mailing list guidelines might also be useful. > [...] > Explain *why* it's ridiculous. I'd love to know. - It doesn't provide any information (as it's far too general) - It won't "educate" the OP to actually "behave better" the next time (since - in his point of view - he's most likely not aware of the fact that one has to clearly point out his own effort(s) in order to make it obvious to all list members that he indeed "tried hard enough" to solve his problem (in the sense of having read the available FAQ and other docs and not having found ways of solving the particular problem in there) IMHO, a possible way of educating such users is to tell them once that they are supposed to include information on as to what steps they've taken to solve the problem on their own. If the OP fails to do so three times, unsubscribe him from the list with a clear message in the unsubscription mail. > [...] > Cue crying about how mean Alan is. Like I mentioned in my first post: I highly value your technical knowledge about and work for FreeRADIUS. But what's the use of a statement like the one you gave above??? I don't consider you "mean" (since I didn't say it). All I'm saying is this: it would probably make everybody's life easier if less assumptions, interpretations, etc. took place on mailing lists. Please think about it. (I didn't "cry", either. It would really help if you take people's concerns seriously. Please try to take that into account.) TIA & greetings, Holger
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