On 9/14/2011 8:46, Alan DeKok wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Like I mentioned in my response to Arran, the OP didn't mention whether he
had tried anything by himself before posting to this list. Maybe he tried it
but he couldn't figure out what the example was telling him (but then he
could have mentioned it in his mail)?
Exactly. If he can't be bothered explaining what he's done, I can't
be bothered to explain what he needs to do.
Same like in the post to Arran: inferring that people are "too lazy" because
they haven't mentioned their own effort is not right, IMHO.
After 10 years of this, experience has given me reason for my
opinions. If they don't say they did anything, 90% of the time it's
because they didn't do anything.
I'm NOT trying
to protect him; all I'm asking for is to be fair to the OP and ask him about
his own effort first (i.e. check his honesty). If he then admits that he
really hasn't done anything you can still come up with responses like "try
harder" (or, better in such a particular case, ignore his post because then
it's clearly obvious that he indeed was "too lazy"). Still better (in such a
case), unsubscribe him from the list.
I don't unsubscribe people for being lazy. The only people who've
been unsubscribed are spammers.
As for helping him to ask good questions... no. This isn't a
commercial support list. If he can't be bothered explaining what he's
done, I can't be bothered to explain what he needs to do.
Please see my paragraph above. I can understand that you are fed up with
having to read a post that reads so similar like the many others you
probably had to read in the past. But still it's not a good idea to assume
that everybody who hasn't included detailed information about his own
effort actually is "too lazy" reading the docs (it may apply in quite a few
cases, but not in all of them).
Or, they're too lazy to say "I tried X, but it didn't work."
But really, when a post says "I want to do X, give me multiple ways
how", the *only* possible conclusion is that he's done nothing, and
wants to be spoon-fed. No other conclusion is supported by the evidence.
I've noticed that many features in freeradius are implemented
unintuitively. Groups are one example. the various rlm modules are
another example. Furthermore there's alot of extensive documentation to
filter through. Asking a general question in hopes of narrowing the
search parameters isn't unreasonable. a good answer to this particular
question would have been
"look into creating a disabled group, or adding an rlm_sql column to
enable or disable users. you should read the man rlm_sql and look into
the files in the sql folder to see what the existing queries look
like". it narrows the search paramters to one folder and one man-page
without taking forever and enables the OP to find the answer quickly and
easily. I've gotten similar answers before, and used them to their fullest.
- It won't "educate" the OP to actually "behave better" the next time (since
- in his point of view - he's most likely not aware of the fact that one
has to clearly point out his own effort(s) in order to make it obvious to
all list members that he indeed "tried hard enough" to solve his problem
(in the sense of having read the available FAQ and other docs and not
having found ways of solving the particular problem in there)
Right... because the near daily pointers to the FAQ on this list, and
in the docs, and on the web site aren't enough. People have to be spoon
fed.
IMHO, a possible way of educating such users is to tell them once that
they are supposed to include information on as to what steps they've taken
to solve the problem on their own.
Like it says in the FAQ, and all of the other documentation.
The solution to the OP being lazy is for *me* to do more work? Nonsense.
Like I mentioned in my first post: I highly value your technical knowledge
about and work for FreeRADIUS. But what's the use of a statement like the
one you gave above???
You're excusing someone who's too lazy to help himself, and are asking
me to do more work to help him.
If you're such an altruist, go help him yourself. Cut& paste the
text from the FAQ or "man" page explaining what he has to do. You'll
quickly realize it's a waste of time.
Really, I truly mean you should do that. Spend a few months trying
hard to help people who can't be bothered to read the documentation.
There is *very* little you can do to educate them.
I don't consider you "mean" (since I didn't say it). All I'm saying is
this: it would probably make everybody's life easier if less assumptions,
interpretations, etc. took place on mailing lists. Please think about it.
(I didn't "cry", either. It would really help if you take people's concerns
seriously. Please try to take that into account.)
I take their concerns seriously. Look at the deluge of features and
bug fixes that go in based on peoples email to this list.
Alan DeKok.
-
List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html
-
List info/subscribe/unsubscribe? See http://www.freeradius.org/list/users.html
