joe, you can signup at that address: http://www.c-ber.net/lserv/listinfo/openvsd
regards, Georges Toth -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Joe Cooper Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 13:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Goodbye FreeVSD, welcome OpenVDS (developers read here) Marcos Rubinstein - ALPA WWW wrote: > On 30 Nov 2001, Nick Burrett wrote: > > -------------------8<snip,snip,snip>8------------------- > >>Since this announcement, there seems to be several people suddenly offering >>their services to enhance this project. >> >>I'm just wondering why none of this voluntary work was never offered >>prior to Idaya announcing a non-free version of FreeVSD ? >> >>Curiously, >> > > The short answer, nick, is that Idaya failed to understand > the open source community. Accent on _community_ > > Even though FreeVSD used the GPL license, Idaya forgot that > a community requires much more. Developers, document > writers, even testers and users need to feel that they are a > vital part of the community. > > I can see myself translating to Spanish some of webmin's > manuals whith no financial gain for me (the same way that > Joe cooper not only wrote the manual for free, but will > release the pdf's for free!). But I can not see myself doing > the same kind of job with FreeVSD, because I feel that I'm > doing it *for* Idaya, not *with* them or *for the > community*. Since my name is already in the conversation, I'll pipe up on the issue, with hopefully some level of fairness to both side... I think Marcos is absolutely right, but I'll temper his thoughts with some nice words about Idaya (it can be thought of as polite farewell letter for those who are leaving, or as giving them their due for those who are staying). Idaya combined great long existing Open Source tools (the virtuald, Apache, Sendmail, BIND, etc.) into a useful package that made sense to a lot of people. Thank you, Idaya. They also wrote a few tools of their own, some of them Open. That's nice too. Thanks Idaya. They also produced a few tools that were not open. Nothing wrong with that. I say no thanks, as a Windows-binary GUI doesn't do much to make my heart go pitter-pat...I doubt my future clients in the hosting space would be interested either. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those things--I'm not one of those free software hobbiest philosophers who imagines one can build a large and successful company simply providing support for one free software project. I know that you can't--I make my living on free software, services, support and hardware based on free software. It's a hard business and I wouldn't want to have to support a large number of employees and answer to investors with my current business model, which is the position the Idaya folks are in. They have investors, I'm sure, and certainly employees to pay. The dot.com bubble has thoroughly and unequivably burst. There are no big IPOs happening based on the Next Big Idea, only for companies that /make money today/. What could have worked two years ago (give it all away, and be rich and happy!) does not work now. Here is where the problem comes in: They've pissed off their free software users. It's easy to do, as Open Source users are a persistently vocal bunch. They speak up about their wants, loudly, and without much regard for feelings or other folks schedules or needs. That's not a bad thing, it keeps everyone aware of where this vague notion of 'community' and open source ethics stands. (I'm sure you're all thinking, "Well, if Idaya isn't wrong and the complaining users aren't wrong, what the heck do you think is going on, Joe!?") I suspect they've simply decided to let it all die down, let the complainers leave and do their own thing, and then rethink their idea about being an Open Source based company. So what do I think (other than that no one is really wrong here)? I think I'll follow OpenVDS (I like 'VDS' better than 'VSD', by the way, it prevents confusion with LVS which means the precise opposite concept and FreeBSD when in conversation) with much interest. And I'll probably help out with it--probably with a Webmin module to put a GUI on it. I'd like an Open Source platform for virtual dedicated servers, but Idaya has been a little too grabby about their software and vague about what is and isn't and will always be Open. > If you can't see this, if you don't understand this... well, > I really don't know how to explain it. I think Idaya need to sit down and figure out where they stand...I sense a culture clash within the company, and I expect an implosion and end to Idaya if they don't straighten it out. I do wish them the best of luck though, and certainly have no hard feelings as many folks here seem to. They don't owe me anything--just because they have funded Open Source development up to now does not mean they owe me free software for the rest of my life. They do need to rethink the idea of accepting patches from the community and then not releasing subsequent versions back to that community...That is copyright infringement--and they'll need to rewrite those bits of code before going proprietary with that stuff. > ps: you can see below some of Dave's reasons... but, again, > I think, no, let me say, I know that the main problem for > many of the developers/programmers was the lack of a feeling > of a community project. It was never, never clear what was > the direction that Idaya wanted to go. That could be OK for > business.. it's not OK for the open source community. > > 'nough said ;) Yep. Very well said indeed, Marcos. It is about community and about the users and contributors knowing where they stand. Idaya, you have to let it go if you want it to be an Open Source (or Free) software project--otherwise, you're just writing mislabeled shareware. Of course, I don't have a clue how you should make it a profitable venture without proprietary componentsif you're going to be primarily a software company. ;-) Anyway, I'm enthused by the notion of a new community based VDS system--where do I sign up? I saw mention of a mailing list, but no subscribe information. I think it's only fair that everyone stop using Idaya's resources to discuss creating a competing product... -- Joe Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.swelltech.com Web Caching Appliances and Support ------------------------- The freeVSD Support List -------------------------- Subscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=subscribe%20freevsd-support Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=unsubscribe%20freevsd-support Archives: http://freevsd.org/support/mail-archives/freevsd-support ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------- The freeVSD Support List -------------------------- Subscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=subscribe%20freevsd-support Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=unsubscribe%20freevsd-support Archives: http://freevsd.org/support/mail-archives/freevsd-support -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
