I don't know, Doug, why don't you read this Salt Lake Tribune story about dissent within the LDS, and tell me who's making snap decisions based on doctrine.
http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_10797630 -- rec -- On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Douglas Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I don't know, Roger. The LDS indoctrination machine is one of the more > efficient operations that exists these days. It seems to supply a fairy > tale that is particularly beguiling to a certain type of personality. Once > that vision of sugar plums and seven levels of heaven is planted, it seems > nearly impossible to uproot. > > I'm sure they'd be happy to take your money, though. > > --Doug > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Roger Critchlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I think someone should contribute $30,000,000 to foment a schism in the >> Church of the Latter Day Saints based on their internal conflicts on this >> issue. >> >> -- rec -- >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Orlando Leibovitz < >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> Owen, >>> >>> In my opinion the word marriage should not be removed. I believe that >>> civil marriage should be available to all consenting adults. Various >>> religions can then do as they please. If, in fact, this is a civil rights >>> (constitutional) issue then religions that violate civil liberties should, >>> at the least, not have 501c3 status. I try to understand but am not >>> sympathetic to religious angst about this as I would not be if you >>> substituted black, jew, Christian, etc for the word gay. >>> >>> James, I am grateful to the Quakers for many of the positions they have >>> taken. >>> >>> Orlando >>> >>> >>> James Steiner wrote: >>> >>> Consider also the relligions that have.supported and do sanctify >>> same-sex marriages, without regard for, indeed in spite of, the legal >>> status of such unions, e.g. the Meetings of Friends (Quakers). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 11/9/08, Owen Densmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Nov 9, 2008, at 12:09 AM, Orlando Leibovitz wrote: >>> ... >>> >>> >>> In my opinion this is not a marriage issue, it is a civil rights >>> issue. >>> >>> >>> And there you have the problem in a nutshell. "Gay marriage" >>> confounds the two. >>> >>> One the one hand, the word "marriage" creates considerable angst on >>> gay issues within the various religions. The recent Anglican/Episcopal >>> split was largely over gay marriage and gay bishops. This is a >>> complex issue where religions have to confront difficult problems >>> within themselves. And definitely a church/state boundary. >>> >>> On the other hand, gay civil rights are clear: they are being violated >>> and the strictly civil rights have to be granted immediately. "Civil >>> union", however, may be a distasteful term to the gay community. >>> >>> Most of silicon valley had to deal with this within their corporate >>> laws. They all grant gay civil rights by now. They simply had to >>> change the concept of "partner" and insurance, spousal rights and so >>> on were easily solved. I don't believe religions are concerned about >>> this solution. As far as I know, the government does not object, and >>> even allows for joint tax filing. >>> >>> I wonder if the word "marriage" were taken out of the equation, would >>> it at least help obtain civil rights for gay couples? >>> >>> -- Owen >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Orlando Leibovitz >>> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> www.orlandoleibovitz.com >>> >>> Studio Telephone: 505-820-6183 >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> >> >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
