Once upon a time, a long time ago, it seemed that there was something
important about writing software in ways that separated levels of
abstraction. But what that really meant and understanding how to do it
seemed like something one learned only by experience -- and perhaps not even
then.

Most people on this list are probably too young to remember those days. But
there was a time when the concept of level of abstraction didn't exist or
was at best something that one thought in a relatively informal way when
evaluating how well some software was designed.

The same is true of "coupling" and "cohesion." These terms were never well
defined -- and still aren't. They were (are) at best somewhat vague pointers
to some sense of what well designed software should look like.  By the way,
I would now say that loose coupling means that components are loosely
coupled when the interact through specified interfaces only. But before the
days of APIs and formal (or at least rigorous) specifications that were
understood to be Independent of the implementation, one couldn't even say
that very well.

We now understand what *levels of abstraction* means, and we have tools that
help us build libraries and applications in terms of them. That doesn't mean
that people should stop writing software.

The same is true of emergence. Knowing the mechanisms that bring it about
doesn't mean that one should stop exploring the use of those mechanisms or
the things one can build using them.

-- Russ


On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Douglas Roberts <[email protected]>wrote:

> I'm curious, Jochen: what do you mean by "solving the problem of"
> emergence?  Understanding it?  Will never happen -- everybody has their own
> 'correct' working definition of "emergence".  Define it?  Ditto. Recognizing
> it?  Ditto.
>
> On the other hand, though, the image of a bunch of unemployed complexity
> scientists is oddly compelling...
>
> --Doug
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Jochen Fromm <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Even if you have solved the problem of emergence
>> (was there any?) and all problems related to it,
>> are you sure that people want it to be solved?
>> 90% of papers on complexity and social simulation
>> explicitly refer to emergence, i.e. emergent
>> processes, properties, dynamics, and patterns.
>> If you have indeed solved everything related to
>> emergence, everyone else working in complexity
>> science would become jobless immediately..
>>
>> By the way did you notice that Libya's president
>> Gaddafi proposed the UN to abolish and dismantle
>> Switzerland? Somehow you have got to like this
>> eccentric behavior.. http://is.gd/2VI3H
>>
>> -J.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Abbott
>> To: [email protected] ; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
>> Coffee Group
>> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] emergence
>>
>>
>> Do you mean Bedau and Humphreys?  Also, I hope you read my paper, "The
>> reductionist blind spot." As I said I've solved the problem of emergence.
>> It's no longer the mystery Bedau and Humphreys make it out to be.
>> Consequently the papers in their book are fairly obsolete.  Of course you
>> will make up your own minds about that. But at least give yourself the
>> chance to reach that conclusion.
>>
>> -- Russ
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
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>>
>
>
>
>
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