Jochen is right that emergence is implementation. Sometimes it's intentional; sometimes it's not. You may find that disappointing. I'm sure a lot of people do. That's may be why so many people like to continue thinking of emergence as mysterious.
Essentially all software is emergent; not none. Emergence doesn't imply unintended consequences. Jochen is also right that knowing that emergence is implementation doesn't tell you how to do it. Figuring out how to implement something is almost always a creative process -- and if you believe Dennett (*Darwin's Dangerous Idea*) all creative processes are fundamentally evolutionary. I think he's right. With respect to consciousness I suppose that it's emergent (implemented) from lower level elements. What's the alternative? Something like vitalism? That consciousness is a new force of nature? That's possible. Another non-emergent view of consciousness is Strawson's panpsychism. He may be right. Consciousness has not yielded much to our attempt to understand it. Chalmer's "The Hard Problem of Consciousness" is still the hard problem of consciousness. But whatever consciousness is, I consider the nature of consciousness a separate question (and still a mystery) from the nature of emergence (not a mystery). -- Russ On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Victoria Hughes <[email protected]>wrote: > One would need to acknowledge all the lower-level elements involved in the > implementation for this to be accurate. > Is the total range of elements knowable in complex systems involving > humans? > > > > On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote: > > So the insight you have brought to the world is >> that the best way to understand emergence is through >> the lens of implementation - emergent properties can >> be described as a high level abstraction which is >> implemented by low level elements. Right? >> >> It seems to me that you have just invented a new >> word for emergence: instead of saying a flock emerges >> from a number of birds you say the birds implement >> a flock, and instead of saying foraging trails >> emerge from an ant colony you say an ant colony >> implements a foraging trail. >> >> For engineers it is in fact useful to understand >> emergence as an implementation, because if they >> want to produce an emergent property, they must >> implement it somehow. Is this revolutionary? >> To implement a behavior for a group of agents >> means to implement a distributed alogithm. You >> know how difficult this is. The "implementation" >> insight is not very useful if we don't know how >> to implement a particular emergent property, >> or how to find the right distributed algorithm for >> the problem at hand. >> >> The interesting question is more how to implement >> emergence (how do we organize a system which >> organizes itself, the ESOA and ESOS problem). >> There are methods to do it, for example genetic >> algorithms or "Synthetic Microanalysis" (i.e. >> the scientifc method for the engineer which >> means rapid prototyping and agile development) >> http://wiki.cas-group.net/index.php?title=ESOS >> >> Another interesting question is why it is so >> hard to find "emergence" in computer science. >> Implementation means writing code, and code is >> the foundation of everything in software development. >> Therefore if you ask where emergence is used >> in computer science, you have to say "nowhere" >> - programmers hate unintended consequences >> and try to avoid them - and "everywhere" - >> it is just code which we use all the time. >> >> -J. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Abbott >> To: [email protected] ; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity >> Coffee Group >> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] emergence >> >> I don't want to leave the impression that I think that emergence is a >> difficult concept to understand and that I but hardly anyone else >> understands it. Emergence is what happens when components of the "emergent >> entity" act in such a way as to bring about the existence and persistence of >> that entity. >> >> When "boids" follow their local flying rules, they create (implement) a >> flock. It's not mysterious. We know how it works. >> >> That's all emergence is: coordinated or consistent actions among a number >> of elements that result in the formation and persistence of some aggregate >> entity or phenomenon. The "coordination" doesn't have to be top-down. In >> flocking, for example, there is coordination. The flying rules depend on the >> boids seeing neighboring boids. One can even say that there is some overall >> coordination: namely that all the boids follow those same rules. Emergence >> is the term we have come to use for that process/effect. >> >> In the introduction to Bedau and Humphreys they speak of emergence as some >> mysterious, perhaps even incoherent phenomenon. It's not. It happens all the >> time all around us. Our bodies are the emergent result of the actinos of our >> cells. A country is the emergent result of the actinos of its citizens. This >> group is the emergent result of the actions of its participants. >> >> It's worth pointing out that in biological and social emergent entities, >> the comonents may come and go while the entity persists. What emerges is a >> pattern of activities, not a physical thing. That's one of the reasons >> people get confused. (And that's why subvenience is not particularly useful >> in these cases.) >> >> But if you just think about emergence as a persistent pattern of >> activities, that pretty much takes care of it. It's the fact that the >> pattern persists that matters, not the elements that are acting to produce >> the pattern. >> >> -- Russ >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
