If you make properties rather than entities emergent, what do you say about entities? What are they? Where do they come from? Put another way, what is a property a property of?
I think you will find that Bedau and Humphreys find emergence mysterious. This is the second sentence from the Introduction<http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/chapters/026202621Xintro1.pdf>. "The topic of emergence is fascinating and controversial in part because emergence seems to be widespread and yet the very idea of emergence seems opaque, and perhaps even incoherent." The rest of the Introduction expands on the mystery of emergence. -- Russ On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Nicholas Thompson < [email protected]> wrote: > Try this: a property of an entity is emergent when it depends on the > arrangment or the order of presentation of the parts of the entity. (It's > *properties* that are emergent, not *entities* ... some properties of a > pile of sand are emergent, some aggregate.) Here, I believe, I am > channeling Wimsatt. > > The beauty of reading a collection such as Bedau and The Other Guy is that > you experience the whip-lash of moving from point of view to point of > view. Good exercise for the neck. > > By the way, Russ (was it?) was a ...leetle... unfair to Bedau. I dont > think Bedau thinks it's a mystery; i think he thinks others have thought it > a mystery. But it's been a few months since I read it. > > Implementation: Consider the expression, "there is more than one way to > skin a cat". Equivalent to: "there are several programs you can use to > implement a cat skinning." > > Consciousness: the big source of confusion in emergence discussions is the > attempt to attach emergence to such perennial mysteries as > consciousness. (Actually, I dont think consciousness is a mystery, but let > that go.) The strength of a triangle is an emergent property of the > arrangment of its legs and their attachments. There are lots of ways bang > together boards and still have a weak construction, which I learned when I > put together a grape arbor with no diagonal members. Worked fine until the > grapes grew on it. Emergent properties are everywhere in the simplest of > constructions. We dont need to talk about soul, or consciouness, or spirit > to have a useful conversation about emergence. > > Nick > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > Clark University ([email protected]) > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Victoria Hughes <[email protected]> > *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group<[email protected]> > *Sent:* 9/6/2009 10:32:59 AM > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] emergence > > Consciousness / self-awareness? > Is this thus acceptable as an emergent phenomenon? > If so, how does this permit, or not, the definition of 'the self' as a > unique identity? > > > Emergence is what happens when components of the "emergent entity" act in > such a way as to bring about the existence and persistence of that entity. > > When "boids" follow their local flying rules, they create (implement) a > flock. It's not mysterious. We know how it works. > > That's all emergence is: coordinated or consistent actions among a number > of elements that result in the formation and persistence of some aggregate > entity or phenomenon. > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
