Not all of us are run by our lizard brains. Speak for yourself, white
male person. I haven't gone to war with nobody, despite much
provocation.
Seriously, check out Don Beck and SDI for a useful system that places
tribal values in a developmental continuum: we do in fact outgrow the
crate 'chicken mentality.
For example Switzerland has the ability and the experience
historically to be quite aggressive. Yet they converted their
resources into impressive defenses, and becoming a culture that the
Wealthy+ Powerful prefer remain stable; so the W+P can safeguard all
that lovely money from the weapons they sold to other chickens.
For that, check out John McPhee's wonderful "La Place de la Concorde
Suisse" about the Swiss army and the transformation of the primal need
to be safe from an aggressively warring model to an aggressively
defended model.
Many other examples, interesting opportunity to compare and contrast.
But that means writing.
Back to my book. Been a pleasure dipping into the discussion for a
few hours.
Tory
On Jul 9, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
But it might only be for the larger good of the tribe and this might
be what's behind our tribal (crate o' chickens) mentalities as a
species? Even if tribes enrich our culture they do tend to go to war
with each other. I wonder how it changes with scale: local (crate),
regional (farm), national and transnational tribes.
Thanks
Robert C
On 7/9/10 5:20 PM, Victoria Hughes wrote:
Fascinating. The original story and its appearance/discussion here.
I am writing a book on the five simple stages that projects move
through, from idea to reality.
Part of the chapter, whose midst I am in, discusses "teams", inner
and outer: the grouping of abilities and attributes required to
get unstuck and get something done.
Sometimes the 'crate o' chickens' is outside of us, if we are
working with a team. Sometimes our team is made from aspects of
our own mind: the internal - complex- interconnection of knowledge,
abilities, ideas, etc all squawking, laying, attacking, defending,
at once, inside our brains.
Glad to know that even among the inheritors of the reptilian hind
brain there can be cooperation for a larger good, even if that is
for more chickens.
Tory
On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Ted Carmichael wrote:
Well, it wouldn't ... unless you were selecting for the lowest
producing hens.
The GA selects for the groups of chickens that produce the most
eggs, not the individuals. Some of those individuals may actually
not produce many eggs, but they must somehow help the ones that do
produce more eggs (in their group).
-t
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Shawn Barr <[email protected]> wrote:
Ted,
I'm confused. Why would a genetic algorithm ever select a hen
that produces fewer eggs over a hen that produces more eggs?
Shawn
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Ted Carmichael <[email protected]>
wrote:
Nick, this is perfect. Thank you!
BTW - the reason for this request is, my advisor and I were asked
to write a chapter on Complex Adaptive Systems, for a cognitive
science textbook. In it, I talk briefly about GA, and put this
story about the chickens in because I thought it was a neat example.
I'll add the references now. Much appreciated.
-t
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[email protected]
> wrote:
Ted,
Ok. So, if I am correct, this was an actual EXPERIMENT done by
two researchers at Indiana University, I think. As I "tell" the
"story", it was the practice to use individual selection to
identify the most productive chickens, but the egg production
method involved crates of nine chickens. The individual selection
method inadvertently selected for the most aggressive chickens, so
that once you threw them together in crates of nine, it would be
like asking nine prom queens to work together in a tug of war.
The chickens had to be debeaked or they would kill each other.
So, the researchers started selection for the best producing
CRATES of chickens. Aggression went down, mortality went down,
crate production went up, and debeaking became unnecessary.
The experiment is described in Sober and Wilson's UNTO OTHERS or
Wilson's EVOLUTION FOR EVERYBODY, which are safely tucked away
in my book case 2000 miles away in Santa Fe. Fortunately, it is
also described in
Dave Wilson's blog
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sloan-wilson/truth-and-reconciliation_b_266316.html
Here is the original reference:
GROUP SELECTION FOR ADAPTATION TO MULTIPLE-HEN CAGES : SELECTION
PROGRAM AND DIRECT RESPONSES
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
MUIR W. M. ;
Revue / Journal Title
Poultry science ISSN 0032-5791 CODEN POSCAL
Source / Source
1996, vol. 75, no4, pp. 447-458 [12 page(s) (article)]
If you Google "group selection in chickens," you will find lots of
other interesting stuff.
Let me know if this helps and what you think.
N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([email protected])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Carmichael
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: 7/9/2010 5:34:29 AM
Subject: [FRIAM] Real-world genetic algorithm example... help!
Dear all,
I'm trying to find reference to a story I read some time ago (a
few years, perhaps?), and I'm hoping that either: a) I heard it
from someone on this list, or b) someone on this list heard it, too.
Anyway, it was a really cool example of a real-world genetic
algorithm, having to do with chickens. Traditionally, the best
egg-producing chickens were allowed to produce the offspring for
future generations. However, these new chickens rarely lived up
to their potential. It was thought that maybe there were unknown
things going on in the clusters of chickens, which represent the
actual environment that these chickens are kept in. And that the
high producers, when gathered together in these groups, somehow
failed to produce as many eggs as expected.
So researchers decided to apply the fitness function to groups of
chickens, rather than individuals. This would perhaps account for
social traits that are generally unknown, but may affect how many
eggs were laid. In fact, the researchers didn't care what those
traits are, only that - whatever they may be - they are preserved
in future generations in a way that increased production.
And the experiment worked. Groups of chickens that produced the
most eggs were preserved, and subsequent generations were much
more productive than with the traditional methods.
Anyway, that's the story. If anyone can provide a link, I would
be very grateful. (As I recall, it wasn't a technical paper, but
rather a story in a more accessible venue. Perhaps the NY Times
article, or something similar?)
Thanks!
-Ted
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
-----------------------------------
TORY HUGHES
[email protected]
Tory Hughes website
Facebook|Tory Hughes Art
------------------------------------
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
-----------------------------------
TORY HUGHES
[email protected]
Tory Hughes website
Facebook|Tory Hughes Art
------------------------------------
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
