Fascinating. The original story and its appearance/discussion here.
I am writing a book on the five simple stages that projects move
through, from idea to reality.
Part of the chapter, whose midst I am in, discusses "teams", inner
and outer: the grouping of abilities and attributes required to get
unstuck and get something done.
Sometimes the 'crate o' chickens' is outside of us, if we are
working with a team. Sometimes our team is made from aspects of our
own mind: the internal - complex- interconnection of knowledge,
abilities, ideas, etc all squawking, laying, attacking, defending, at
once, inside our brains.
Glad to know that even among the inheritors of the reptilian hind
brain there can be cooperation for a larger good, even if that is for
more chickens.
Tory
On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Ted Carmichael wrote:
Well, it wouldn't ... unless you were selecting for the lowest
producing hens.
The GA selects for the groups of chickens that produce the most
eggs, not the individuals. Some of those individuals may actually
not produce many eggs, but they must somehow help the ones that do
produce more eggs (in their group).
-t
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Shawn Barr <[email protected]> wrote:
Ted,
I'm confused. Why would a genetic algorithm ever select a hen that
produces fewer eggs over a hen that produces more eggs?
Shawn
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Ted Carmichael <[email protected]>
wrote:
Nick, this is perfect. Thank you!
BTW - the reason for this request is, my advisor and I were asked to
write a chapter on Complex Adaptive Systems, for a cognitive science
textbook. In it, I talk briefly about GA, and put this story about
the chickens in because I thought it was a neat example.
I'll add the references now. Much appreciated.
-t
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[email protected]
> wrote:
Ted,
Ok. So, if I am correct, this was an actual EXPERIMENT done by two
researchers at Indiana University, I think. As I "tell" the
"story", it was the practice to use individual selection to identify
the most productive chickens, but the egg production method involved
crates of nine chickens. The individual selection method
inadvertently selected for the most aggressive chickens, so that
once you threw them together in crates of nine, it would be like
asking nine prom queens to work together in a tug of war. The
chickens had to be debeaked or they would kill each other. So, the
researchers started selection for the best producing CRATES of
chickens. Aggression went down, mortality went down, crate
production went up, and debeaking became unnecessary.
The experiment is described in Sober and Wilson's UNTO OTHERS or
Wilson's EVOLUTION FOR EVERYBODY, which are safely tucked away in
my book case 2000 miles away in Santa Fe. Fortunately, it is also
described in
Dave Wilson's blog
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sloan-wilson/truth-and-reconciliation_b_266316.html
Here is the original reference:
GROUP SELECTION FOR ADAPTATION TO MULTIPLE-HEN CAGES : SELECTION
PROGRAM AND DIRECT RESPONSES
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
MUIR W. M. ;
Revue / Journal Title
Poultry science ISSN 0032-5791 CODEN POSCAL
Source / Source
1996, vol. 75, no4, pp. 447-458 [12 page(s) (article)]
If you Google "group selection in chickens," you will find lots of
other interesting stuff.
Let me know if this helps and what you think.
N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([email protected])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Carmichael
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: 7/9/2010 5:34:29 AM
Subject: [FRIAM] Real-world genetic algorithm example... help!
Dear all,
I'm trying to find reference to a story I read some time ago (a few
years, perhaps?), and I'm hoping that either: a) I heard it from
someone on this list, or b) someone on this list heard it, too.
Anyway, it was a really cool example of a real-world genetic
algorithm, having to do with chickens. Traditionally, the best egg-
producing chickens were allowed to produce the offspring for future
generations. However, these new chickens rarely lived up to their
potential. It was thought that maybe there were unknown things
going on in the clusters of chickens, which represent the actual
environment that these chickens are kept in. And that the high
producers, when gathered together in these groups, somehow failed to
produce as many eggs as expected.
So researchers decided to apply the fitness function to groups of
chickens, rather than individuals. This would perhaps account for
social traits that are generally unknown, but may affect how many
eggs were laid. In fact, the researchers didn't care what those
traits are, only that - whatever they may be - they are preserved in
future generations in a way that increased production.
And the experiment worked. Groups of chickens that produced the
most eggs were preserved, and subsequent generations were much more
productive than with the traditional methods.
Anyway, that's the story. If anyone can provide a link, I would be
very grateful. (As I recall, it wasn't a technical paper, but
rather a story in a more accessible venue. Perhaps the NY Times
article, or something similar?)
Thanks!
-Ted
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
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TORY HUGHES
[email protected]
Tory Hughes website
Facebook|Tory Hughes Art
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