Dunno. Not familiar with that. One aim of mine with this book is to
phrase these ideas in a way that the beloved General Public can use
them. Not just B-school types. I want the basic concept to be
generally accessible. Needs to be, after all.
Will look into this.
Has it affected how you conceptualize and take action on ideas and
goals?
Or was it interesting (partly because of the alliteration, that
memorable lilting he set up sticks in our brains like the Oscar Mayer
Weiner song)
Happy to hear speculations, no worries.
Tory
On Jul 9, 2010, at 6:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Tory --
How does this relate (if at all) to the simplistic group dynamics
model I learned in business school (attributed to Bruce Tuckman)?
forming
storming
norming
performing
At a minimum, I'm missing a stage, and I'm sure there's much more to
your analysis. Excuse my speculations.
- Claiborne Booker -
-----Original Message-----
From: Victoria Hughes <[email protected]>
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]
>
Sent: Fri, Jul 9, 2010 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Projects: 5 Stages
Yup, in most cases. Sometimes limitations force unusual, possibly
more successful, resolutions. I don't know the book, will look into
it. Thanks.
Tory
On Jul 9, 2010, at 5:51 PM, Stephen Thompson wrote:
Tory:
I am part way through Scott Page's book titled The Difference He
discussed the the power of diversity to
produce better groups and outcomes. Are you aware of that
reference? None, some, or much diversity
would influence the stages or at least successful completion of the
stages would it not?
Steph T
Victoria Hughes wrote:
Fascinating. The original story and its appearance/discussion here.
I am writing a book on the five simple stages that projects move
through, from idea to reality.
Part of the chapter, whose midst I am in, discusses "teams",
inner and outer: the grouping of abilities and attributes
required to get unstuck and get something done.
Sometimes the 'crate o' chickens' is outside of us, if we are
working with a team. Sometimes our team is made from aspects of
our own mind: the internal - complex- interconnection of
knowledge, abilities, ideas, etc all squawking, laying, attacking,
defending, at once, inside our brains.
Glad to know that even among the inheritors of the reptilian hind
brain there can be cooperation for a larger good, even if that is
for more chickens.
Tory
On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Ted Carmichael wrote:
Well, it wouldn't ... unless you were selecting for the lowest
producing hens.
The GA selects for the groups of chickens that produce the most
eggs, not the individuals. Some of those individuals may
actually not produce many eggs, but they must somehow help the
ones that do produce more eggs (in their group).
-t
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Shawn Barr <[email protected]>
wrote:
Ted,
I'm confused. Why would a genetic algorithm ever select a hen
that produces fewer eggs over a hen that produces more eggs?
Shawn
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Ted Carmichael
<[email protected]> wrote:
Nick, this is perfect. Thank you!
BTW - the reason for this request is, my advisor and I were asked
to write a chapter on Complex Adaptive Systems, for a cognitive
science textbook. In it, I talk briefly about GA, and put this
story about the chickens in because I thought it was a neat
example.
I'll add the references now. Much appreciated.
-t
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[email protected]
> wrote:
Ted,
Ok. So, if I am correct, this was an actual EXPERIMENT done by
two researchers at Indiana University, I think. As I "tell" the
"story", it was the practice to use individual selection to
identify the most productive chickens, but the egg production
method involved crates of nine chickens. The individual
selection method inadvertently selected for the most aggressive
chickens, so that once you threw them together in crates of nine,
it would be like asking nine prom queens to work together in a
tug of war. The chickens had to be debeaked or they would kill
each other. So, the researchers started selection for the best
producing CRATES of chickens. Aggression went down, mortality
went down, crate production went up, and debeaking became
unnecessary.
The experiment is described in Sober and Wilson's UNTO OTHERS or
Wilson's EVOLUTION FOR EVERYBODY, which are safely tucked away
in my book case 2000 miles away in Santa Fe. Fortunately, it is
also described in
Dave Wilson's blog
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sloan-wilson/truth-and-reconciliation_b_266316.html
Here is the original reference:
GROUP SELECTION FOR ADAPTATION TO MULTIPLE-HEN CAGES : SELECTION
PROGRAM AND DIRECT RESPONSES
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
MUIR W. M. ;
Revue / Journal Title
Poultry science ISSN 0032-5791 CODEN POSCAL
Source / Source
1996, vol. 75, no4, pp. 447-458 [12 page(s) (article)]
If you Google "group selection in chickens," you will find lots
of other interesting stuff.
Let me know if this helps and what you think.
N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([email protected])
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
http://www.cusf.org [City University of Santa Fe]
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Carmichael
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: 7/9/2010 5:34:29 AM
Subject: [FRIAM] Real-world genetic algorithm example... help!
Dear all,
I'm trying to find reference to a story I read some time ago (a
few years, perhaps?), and I'm hoping that either: a) I heard it
from someone on this list, or b) someone on this list heard it,
too.
Anyway, it was a really cool example of a real-world genetic
algorithm, having to do with chickens. Traditionally, the best
egg-producing chickens were allowed to produce the offspring for
future generations. However, these new chickens rarely lived up
to their potential. It was thought that maybe there were unknown
things going on in the clusters of chickens, which represent the
actual environment that these chickens are kept in. And that the
high producers, when gathered together in these groups, somehow
failed to produce as many eggs as expected.
So researchers decided to apply the fitness function to groups of
chickens, rather than individuals. This would perhaps account
for social traits that are generally unknown, but may affect how
many eggs were laid. In fact, the researchers didn't care what
those traits are, only that - whatever they may be - they are
preserved in future generations in a way that increased production.
And the experiment worked. Groups of chickens that produced the
most eggs were preserved, and subsequent generations were much
more productive than with the traditional methods.
Anyway, that's the story. If anyone can provide a link, I would
be very grateful. (As I recall, it wasn't a technical paper, but
rather a story in a more accessible venue. Perhaps the NY Times
article, or something similar?)
Thanks!
-Ted
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
-----------------------------------
TORY HUGHES
[email protected]
Tory Hughes website
Facebook|Tory Hughes Art
------------------------------------
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
-----------------------------------
TORY HUGHES
[email protected]
Tory Hughes website
Facebook|Tory Hughes Art
------------------------------------
=
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
-----------------------------------
TORY HUGHES
[email protected]
Tory Hughes website
Facebook|Tory Hughes Art
------------------------------------
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
