Clearly, this is very much a moving target. After scrolls were first introduced, was there a lot of innovation getting the handles just right?
There is an absolutely wonderful video on how to use something called a "book" in a medieval monastery, produced by Norwegian TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFAWR6hzZek Bruce On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Greg Sonnenfeld <[email protected]> wrote: > In college, I had a tablet I would use often for note taking and > homework assignments, The few e-books I had greatly simplified the > homework process, as i could cut and paste homework problems and > diagrams from the book into my homework and mark them up. > > I look forward to the day where e-text books are fully interactive, > where students could perform simulations, write codes, or write and > submit there homework within fields and figures in the book ( which > would ideally be done on a tablet with a stylus). I'm betting a > prototype of such a book could be made using CDF. Though, I think a > great deal of iteration would be needed to give the book a fluid feel > that would satisfy most textbook consumers. > > **************************** > Greg Sonnenfeld > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Edward Angel <[email protected]> wrote: >> As much as I like the idea of a 3D electronic book, I don't believe it will >> make an huge impact; maybe when electronic media get to the point where >> writing notes and going back and forth are really as easy as with a physical >> book. >> One of the pressures we face as textbook authors is that unless I have a >> very good website to provide additional support (ppt lectures, electronic >> versions of all figures, programs, etc) I lose a lot of adopters. As Bruce >> knows that's a lot of work. >> The analogy between book reps and pharmaceutical reps is interesting. >> However there is an order of magnitude difference in renumeration. I've >> known health science faculty to give up tenure to become drug reps but I >> have never seen that happen with a physics or engineering faculty member. >> However, in both cases the job of the rep has changed from knowing a lot >> about the product to being able to get into a faculty office and get samples >> to someone who really doesn't want to talk to you. >> In NM, most UNM students are self-supporting and wind up buying their own >> textbooks. There has been a huge cultural shift which goes beyond the money >> issue. I would never think of selling a book after taking a class but >> students today have an entirely different attitude towards media. Of course >> when a biology 101 textbook costs $250 (really does) the $$ matter. >> What does seem to be changing is the popularity of on-line courses. At UNM >> there are now 8000 student enrollments in such classes each semester. For >> many years I fought against such classes as not being up to the standards of >> a live class with real interaction. But with the new tools available to put >> together on-line courses and to interact with students on-line, I'm >> reconsidering my view. Perhaps that's where Bruce and I might find a lot of >> agreement. With an on-line format, students can access a lot of 3D demos and >> all kinds of other material that could not be in a physical book. I'm going >> to develop such a course this fall. >> Ed >> __________ >> Ed Angel >> >> Chair, Board of Directors, Santa Fe Complex >> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >> (ARTS Lab) >> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >> >> 1017 Sierra Pinon >> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >> 505-984-0136 (home) [email protected] >> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >> http://artslab.unm.edu >> http://sfcomplex.org >> On Jul 23, 2011, at 2:54 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: >> >> I'll mention that the smart physics textbook editor at Wiley, whom we >> work with, a few years ago gave a very analytical talk at a physics >> education conference on why textbooks MUST move to electronic form. He >> gave a convincing summary of how the current scheme is dysfunctional >> for everyone -- students, authors, faculty, and publishers. The only >> group he could identify for whom it sort of works is university >> bookstores, and even that group is going under as students buy books >> over the web. >> >> The current high costs are due not only to production costs but also >> to the counterintuitive situation that competition drives prices >> higher. Publishers spend a lot of money on reps who try desperately to >> get a few minutes face time to tell uninterested faculty why they >> should use the latest book. The situation is similar to that of >> pharmaceuticals, where company reps try to talk to doctors. The >> fundamental issue is that in the case of both textbooks and drugs, the >> prescriber isn't the same person as the buyer. >> >> Among the many dysfunctions one is almost humorous. A lot of money is >> spent trucking books back and forth between publishers and university >> bookstores, thanks to tax laws that require paying taxes on physical >> inventory. >> >> An interesting aspect of textbook prices is that it is the parents who >> pay the (high) price to buy the textbook, but it is the student who >> gets the (significant) money from selling the used book. This exchange >> presumably contributes to the fact that very few students now keep >> their college textbooks. >> >> One possible change that interests our editor and us is that one can >> imagine making an electronic textbook be highly interactive, not just >> a replacement for paper, in which case an ebook could look much more >> attractive. This possible context is one of the motivations for the >> work I'm doing with David Scherer to make it easy to write 3D >> animations that run in a browser. We're making good progress on this. >> >> Bruce >> >> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Edward Angel <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I suspect it's a rather hopeless venture, at least for technical books. >> >> I just spent a couple of days with my editors at Addison-Wesley. Since I >> >> have about 250 adoptions of my textbook in the US, both I and AW are very >> >> interested in all these issues and have been following the various attempts >> >> publishers are using to try to make money using the internet. For example, >> >> AW created CourseSmart where students get access to the book on the internet >> >> for the semester at about half of what the physical book would cost. That >> >> venture doesn't seem to be doing very well. Part of the reason is purely >> >> economic. If a student can resell the book to the bookstore at the end of >> >> the semester for 50% then why use the electronic version. >> >> But the most salient factor seems to be that students do not like reading >> >> technical books on ipads, kindles or any other device. One interesting >> >> option is that some publishers are offering is a combined option where you >> >> get both the physical book and the electronic version for a little more than >> >> the cost of the physical book. Students seem to like option that since they >> >> can have the electronic version on a portable device while in class but use >> >> the physical book to study with. But of course that costs even more than the >> >> outrageous prices students have to pay for just the physical book. >> >> All in all, the publishers have not a clue as to how to get out of the death >> >> spiral they're in. Once the used book sellers got organized, the publishers >> >> responded by hounding authors to do new editions every couple of years, an >> >> act that drove the price of textbooks through the roof since most of the >> >> cost is in the production of the book not in the marginal cost of printing >> >> more copies. It's gotten to the point where at a place like UNM where >> >> students really struggle financially, the cost of textbooks is edging to >> >> towards the cost of tuition. Many of us authors have seen our royalties stay >> >> the same as the cost of books rises while the numbers sold go down but we >> >> don't feel very good about the situation. >> >> Ed >> >> __________ >> >> Ed Angel >> >> Chair, Board of Directors, Santa Fe Complex >> >> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >> >> (ARTS Lab) >> >> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >> >> 1017 Sierra Pinon >> >> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >> >> 505-984-0136 (home) [email protected] >> >> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >> >> http://artslab.unm.edu >> >> http://sfcomplex.org >> >> On Jul 19, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: >> >> Interesting: digital rental of text books at amazon: >> >> http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=16101 >> >> Others have done this sort of thing but this is pretty big-time. And I >> >> notice that this is not only for the kindle device, but also for your >> >> computer, phone, ipad via their kindle apps, which now allow color, even >> >> though the kindle itself is black/white only. >> >> -- Owen >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Santa Fe Complex >> >> "discuss" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> [email protected] >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/a/sfcomplex.org/group/discuss >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
