Ah thats quite a funny video. If you could clarify what you meant via the scrolls and handles analogy, I would be appreciative.
Thanks, Greg Sonnenfeld On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Bruce Sherwood <bruce.sherw...@gmail.com> wrote: > Clearly, this is very much a moving target. > > After scrolls were first introduced, was there a lot of innovation > getting the handles just right? > > There is an absolutely wonderful video on how to use something called > a "book" in a medieval monastery, produced by Norwegian TV: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFAWR6hzZek > > Bruce > > On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Greg Sonnenfeld <gsonn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> In college, I had a tablet I would use often for note taking and >> homework assignments, The few e-books I had greatly simplified the >> homework process, as i could cut and paste homework problems and >> diagrams from the book into my homework and mark them up. >> >> I look forward to the day where e-text books are fully interactive, >> where students could perform simulations, write codes, or write and >> submit there homework within fields and figures in the book ( which >> would ideally be done on a tablet with a stylus). I'm betting a >> prototype of such a book could be made using CDF. Though, I think a >> great deal of iteration would be needed to give the book a fluid feel >> that would satisfy most textbook consumers. >> >> **************************** >> Greg Sonnenfeld >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote: >>> As much as I like the idea of a 3D electronic book, I don't believe it will >>> make an huge impact; maybe when electronic media get to the point where >>> writing notes and going back and forth are really as easy as with a physical >>> book. >>> One of the pressures we face as textbook authors is that unless I have a >>> very good website to provide additional support (ppt lectures, electronic >>> versions of all figures, programs, etc) I lose a lot of adopters. As Bruce >>> knows that's a lot of work. >>> The analogy between book reps and pharmaceutical reps is interesting. >>> However there is an order of magnitude difference in renumeration. I've >>> known health science faculty to give up tenure to become drug reps but I >>> have never seen that happen with a physics or engineering faculty member. >>> However, in both cases the job of the rep has changed from knowing a lot >>> about the product to being able to get into a faculty office and get samples >>> to someone who really doesn't want to talk to you. >>> In NM, most UNM students are self-supporting and wind up buying their own >>> textbooks. There has been a huge cultural shift which goes beyond the money >>> issue. I would never think of selling a book after taking a class but >>> students today have an entirely different attitude towards media. Of course >>> when a biology 101 textbook costs $250 (really does) the $$ matter. >>> What does seem to be changing is the popularity of on-line courses. At UNM >>> there are now 8000 student enrollments in such classes each semester. For >>> many years I fought against such classes as not being up to the standards of >>> a live class with real interaction. But with the new tools available to put >>> together on-line courses and to interact with students on-line, I'm >>> reconsidering my view. Perhaps that's where Bruce and I might find a lot of >>> agreement. With an on-line format, students can access a lot of 3D demos and >>> all kinds of other material that could not be in a physical book. I'm going >>> to develop such a course this fall. >>> Ed >>> __________ >>> Ed Angel >>> >>> Chair, Board of Directors, Santa Fe Complex >>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >>> (ARTS Lab) >>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >>> >>> 1017 Sierra Pinon >>> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >>> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu >>> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>> http://artslab.unm.edu >>> http://sfcomplex.org >>> On Jul 23, 2011, at 2:54 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: >>> >>> I'll mention that the smart physics textbook editor at Wiley, whom we >>> work with, a few years ago gave a very analytical talk at a physics >>> education conference on why textbooks MUST move to electronic form. He >>> gave a convincing summary of how the current scheme is dysfunctional >>> for everyone -- students, authors, faculty, and publishers. The only >>> group he could identify for whom it sort of works is university >>> bookstores, and even that group is going under as students buy books >>> over the web. >>> >>> The current high costs are due not only to production costs but also >>> to the counterintuitive situation that competition drives prices >>> higher. Publishers spend a lot of money on reps who try desperately to >>> get a few minutes face time to tell uninterested faculty why they >>> should use the latest book. The situation is similar to that of >>> pharmaceuticals, where company reps try to talk to doctors. The >>> fundamental issue is that in the case of both textbooks and drugs, the >>> prescriber isn't the same person as the buyer. >>> >>> Among the many dysfunctions one is almost humorous. A lot of money is >>> spent trucking books back and forth between publishers and university >>> bookstores, thanks to tax laws that require paying taxes on physical >>> inventory. >>> >>> An interesting aspect of textbook prices is that it is the parents who >>> pay the (high) price to buy the textbook, but it is the student who >>> gets the (significant) money from selling the used book. This exchange >>> presumably contributes to the fact that very few students now keep >>> their college textbooks. >>> >>> One possible change that interests our editor and us is that one can >>> imagine making an electronic textbook be highly interactive, not just >>> a replacement for paper, in which case an ebook could look much more >>> attractive. This possible context is one of the motivations for the >>> work I'm doing with David Scherer to make it easy to write 3D >>> animations that run in a browser. We're making good progress on this. >>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote: >>> >>> I suspect it's a rather hopeless venture, at least for technical books. >>> >>> I just spent a couple of days with my editors at Addison-Wesley. Since I >>> >>> have about 250 adoptions of my textbook in the US, both I and AW are very >>> >>> interested in all these issues and have been following the various attempts >>> >>> publishers are using to try to make money using the internet. For example, >>> >>> AW created CourseSmart where students get access to the book on the internet >>> >>> for the semester at about half of what the physical book would cost. That >>> >>> venture doesn't seem to be doing very well. Part of the reason is purely >>> >>> economic. If a student can resell the book to the bookstore at the end of >>> >>> the semester for 50% then why use the electronic version. >>> >>> But the most salient factor seems to be that students do not like reading >>> >>> technical books on ipads, kindles or any other device. One interesting >>> >>> option is that some publishers are offering is a combined option where you >>> >>> get both the physical book and the electronic version for a little more than >>> >>> the cost of the physical book. Students seem to like option that since they >>> >>> can have the electronic version on a portable device while in class but use >>> >>> the physical book to study with. But of course that costs even more than the >>> >>> outrageous prices students have to pay for just the physical book. >>> >>> All in all, the publishers have not a clue as to how to get out of the death >>> >>> spiral they're in. Once the used book sellers got organized, the publishers >>> >>> responded by hounding authors to do new editions every couple of years, an >>> >>> act that drove the price of textbooks through the roof since most of the >>> >>> cost is in the production of the book not in the marginal cost of printing >>> >>> more copies. It's gotten to the point where at a place like UNM where >>> >>> students really struggle financially, the cost of textbooks is edging to >>> >>> towards the cost of tuition. Many of us authors have seen our royalties stay >>> >>> the same as the cost of books rises while the numbers sold go down but we >>> >>> don't feel very good about the situation. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> __________ >>> >>> Ed Angel >>> >>> Chair, Board of Directors, Santa Fe Complex >>> >>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >>> >>> (ARTS Lab) >>> >>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >>> >>> 1017 Sierra Pinon >>> >>> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >>> >>> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu >>> >>> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>> >>> http://artslab.unm.edu >>> >>> http://sfcomplex.org >>> >>> On Jul 19, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: >>> >>> Interesting: digital rental of text books at amazon: >>> >>> http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=16101 >>> >>> Others have done this sort of thing but this is pretty big-time. And I >>> >>> notice that this is not only for the kindle device, but also for your >>> >>> computer, phone, ipad via their kindle apps, which now allow color, even >>> >>> though the kindle itself is black/white only. >>> >>> -- Owen >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Santa Fe Complex >>> >>> "discuss" group. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to disc...@sfcomplex.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> >>> discuss+unsubscr...@sfcomplex.org >>> >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/a/sfcomplex.org/group/discuss >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
