Steve,
Cynics are disappointed idealists. Somewhere, way beyond all that, is Wisdom. N From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Smith Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:34 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith Nick - Good point, however we all probably agree that hyperbole is as common on this list as is cynicism. I actually find myself leaving my driveway less and less... but not because I think anyone is out to get me, but in fact, as you point out, I'm more and more aware how much of a S--T no one gives? I think one of the things that motivated me in my youth around riding a motorcycle was the actual exhiliration I felt every time I anticipated some numbskull's poor judgement or execution... I feel something somewhat different now. Especially realizing that as often as not, I *don't* anticipate them all. - Steve D. Argumentative positioning aside, you could not get out your drive way if you actually believed any of that. In the first place, the world isn't interested in harming you. That's the hardest part. REAllizing that they don't love you AND they don't hate you. THEY JUST DON'T GIVE A S-T. n From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Prof David West Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:21 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] faith As another rider (only 44 years) - my faith is that every other driver out there is incompetent, blind, deaf, and out to get me. I credit that faith with my continuing existence! davew On Sun, Sep 23, 2012, at 06:23 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote: Yeah, well: that philosophy will get you dead if you are a motorcycle rider. Maybe not the first year, but the longer you maintain "faith" that the other diver will stay in his lane, the more likely it becomes that you won't make it home one night. I've been riding for 48 years, still alive... --Doug On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:13 PM, ERIC P. CHARLES <[email protected]> wrote: Since this thread is still going... Curt said: "Faith: that the other drivers will stay on their side of the road. I don't have to track every one exactly." ---- Exactly! It is faith when you stop monitoring the other cars when driving, stop looking at the ground you are about to step on when walking, etc. It is faith when you get out of bed without checking to see that the ground is still there. The actions themselves entail the faith; they do not result from faith, they are the faith. An interesting additional issue is when we do and do not explicitly talk about the things we have faith in. It might also be an additional issue on what basis some people have faith in a "super-natural" "higher-power". (Both scare-quotes seem necessary, because pretty everyone has faith in higher powers, and most people have faith in things they don't have natural explanations for, but we seem to be focusing primarily on the times when those faiths overlap.) Eric P.S. Curt, if you are into Power's Perceptual Control Theory, do you know Richard Marken and Warren Manell's work? They wrote a great article for a journal issue I am putting together. P.P.S. The notion of "blind" faith is really very modern. Certainly it was not long ago that faith in the Judeo-Christian God was primarily supported by experiential evidence. "Behold the wonders," "experience God in every blade of grass," "check out this amazing cathedral," "our army won," etc. The fact that we sometimes meaningfully talk about "blind faith" seems to indicate that the normal meaning of the term "faith" is not inherently blind. On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 12:21 AM, Curt McNamara <[email protected]> wrote: I had been nicely ignoring this thread in the belief (faith?) that it would go away without affecting me. Alas, the need for a distraction from grading has drawn me back into its basin of (strange) attraction. Faith: that the other drivers will stay on their side of the road. I don't have to track every one exactly. Action based on belief: ref. William Powers: Behavior, the Control of Perception. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptual_control_theory Faith or belief: my mental models of the world will still be true tomorrow. These models have been built over time by hypothesis, testing, and adjustment (toddler and stairs example). Curt ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ------------ Eric Charles Assistant Professor of Psychology Penn State University Altoona, PA 16601 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- Doug Roberts [email protected] [email protected] http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
