> > Many would argue (eg Seth Llloyd > http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020603/full/news020527-16.html) that > *any* process that involves changes of state is computation. Can you name a > "procedure for arriving at answers" that doesn't involve a series of > processes that change state?
That pretty much covers it, Steven. Very concise. It does more fundamentally ask the question, "Can all procedures be modeled as just state machines?" So, back to an early thought of a Turing Machine, which is a very simple--almost trivial--model of a computation, but this trivial device is capable of any computation that can be performed by any other computing device. [*Sidebar*: Is a medical procedure [protocol] as computation? The objective is to get to an outcome that may not occur. There are steps. If we were to automate this "operation" with a machine, then we could easily think of this as a computational procedure. Yes?] In the context of a *mathematical model of computation*, the other missing piece here seems to be the *allowable *triggers or conditions established for transitioning out of any particular state. That's the key part of any algorithm especially for determining its complexity. Also, an algorithm doesn't have to be guaranteed to finish (reach an* accept state*) at an answer in order to be considered a procedure or algorithm, IMHO. For example, nothing may guarantee that a *proper *condition will arise for the procedure to transition to the next logical state. And, there are algorithms <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwip-OSS19_NAhUEKGMKHRCfAHgQFgg2MAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FP_versus_NP_problem&usg=AFQjCNFEKjY0JaPaecYPn3Mt3va-OIHmNg&sig2=Z1QceI9MitOs90CpLXYU9A&bvm=bv.126130881,d.cGc> that cannot theoretically be determined to finish or stop. But that is likely not in scope of addressing the original question: Nick writes: I guess what I was fishing for is some sort of exploration of > the idea that > *not all *procedures for arriving at answers are computations. Okay--at the risk of just throwing a bit more confusion into the mix--let's ask, "Is computation the same as information processing?" This may just be a semantic argument but it is a point of departure for cognitive scientists who make the distinction that the brain is not a computer. See, for example, Computation vs. information processing: why their difference matters to cognitive science <chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/http://www.umsl.edu/~piccininig/Computation_vs_Information_Processing.pdf> (2010). It is an interesting discussion in terms of the cognitive science concept of "*computationalism*" that arises in discussions of strong generalized artificial intelligence. Since the cognitive revolution, it has become commonplace that cognition > involves both computation and information processing. Is this one claim or > two? Is computation the same as information processing? > The two terms are often used interchangeably, but this usage masks > important differences. In this paper, we distinguish information processing > from computation and examine some of their mutual relations, shed- > ding light on the role each can play in a theory of cognition. We > recommend that theorists of cognition be explicit and careful in choosing > notions of computation and information and connecting them together. Again, this may just be a semantic argument or outside the scope of Nick's original query, though it is still interesting. Cheers, -R On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Stephen Guerin <stephen.gue...@simtable.com> wrote: > Nick writes: > > I guess what I was fishing for is some sort of exploration of the idea > that not all procedures for arriving at answers are computations. > > Many would argue (eg Seth Llloyd > http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020603/full/news020527-16.html) that > *any* process that involves changes of state is computation. Can you name a > "procedure for arriving at answers" that doesn't involve a series of > processes that change state? > > -S > > _______________________________________________________________________ > stephen.gue...@simtable.com <stephen.gue...@simtable.com> > CEO, Simtable http://www.simtable.com > 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505 > office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828 > twitter: @simtable > >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >
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