Nick, There I was conversing along without an experiential care in the world, when WHAM, a speed bump — Signs all the way down" slams my head into the roof — massive headache.
Two aspirins you might provide: 1) a concise explanation of how Peircian semiotics differs from the semiotics I came to know and love; and 2) an essence preservation transformation of the simple narrative to follow into "experience all the way down" and then into "signs all the way down." Hatha Yoga 101 - breathing. - attempt to precisely regulate breathing, i.e. five seconds in, five seconds hold, five seconds exhale. - intense resistance (lizard brain / aka autonomous nervous system) "objects" "tries to wrest control" - repeated practice —> success as "conscious habit" —> success as "non-conscious" habit —> success as, apparently, retrained lizard brain - increased energy - REM brain waves, but no "awareness" of dreaming, nor residual "memory" of same davew On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Hi, Steve, > > This is one of those moments when I have to be grateful you-guys let me > participate here because it is so obvious to me that I am out of my depth in > this conversation. But … > > You have my shroedinger (what is life?) crystal humming AND my Peirce (it’s > signs all the way down) crystal humming. The proposition, “It’s signs all the > way down” has to be understood as the proposition that a sign is a certain > kind of relation in which something stands in for something for something > else. Full stop. So all basic biological processes (think enzymes) are sign > systems. Another way to think of a sign system is as a relation è*to a > relation**ç**. *So is the sorting of the pebbles on a beach a sign relation? > What about the tendency of slush to maintain a 32 degree temperature? Fill in > your favorite example, here. > > Nick > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith > *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2019 10:41 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake > > Dave - > It felt a strange coincidence, but in the early days of SFx, we were holding > a "blender" on the topic of morphometrics at the same time that Sheldrake was > visiting SFe to speak at a "Science of Consciousness" conference. This was > the meeting at which he was stabbed by a 'fan' who was apparently disturbed > going in but more disturbed by Sheldrake's ideas? > https://boingboing.net/2008/04/09/biologist-rupert-she.html > Our "morphometrics" was an acutely more mundane conversation about the > practicalities of starting with laser scans of paleontological and > archaelogical artifacts and doing statistical analysis to try to reveal > "hidden" correlations. For example, we were hoping to be able to recognize > the "hand" in objects such as flaked lithic tools or hand-formed ceramics. > It is interesting to me that you bring up homeopathic "dilution to nothing" > based on the assumption that the water's quasi-crystalline structure somehow > holds something meaningful from the original inoculant which had been titered > into oblivion. > Are you familiar with Mae-Wan Ho's work in quasi-crystals in water and water > emulsions? I understand that where she (and others more acutely) have taken > her research to fundamentally vitalistic places in a way that is hard to not > dismiss as pseudo-science, but the underlying science seems pretty sound? My > daughter who is a molecular biologist has been unable to provide either > confirmation nor refutation of the application of this work in her own domain > (flavivirii). > I naively discarded a personal/professional correspondence (typed letter on > letterhead ca 1984) from Roger Penrose in response to a tiny bit of work I > did in pre-quantum consciousness (:Cellular automata in cytoskeletal > lattices" : > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278984902598). Penrose > was postulating that it was aperiodic tilings (surprise!) that were at the > root of consciousness (in human brains). This was some years before his > "Emperor's New Mind" and pursuit of "Quantum Consciousness" (with my > co-author Stuart Hameroff). I am unable to get sufficient traction on > contemporary QC work including Penrose's nor Stu Kauffman's to know what I > believe on the topic. I am most sympathetic with the Pibram/Bohm perspective, > but that is more intuitive than anything. > I understand that Marcus' has moved from LANL to a day-job in full-up Quantum > Computing. I don't know that Q computing has any implications for Q > consciousness, but it would seem that it can't help but lead to more > experience with quantum effects translated into human scales of time and > space. > - Steve > On 9/16/19 12:20 AM, Prof David West wrote: >> Yes, Sheldrake,yearns for a kind of metaphysical reality and scientific >> validity that still eludes him. I think that have have reached, and are at >> risk of blending with, homeopathy and the like cure like, the dilution of >> "stuff" til there is no stuff left, but the "water has memory." >> >> All based, of course on shared resonance. >> >> Not sure about the data set. Most of it is from him or true believers and >> suffers from finding what you are looking for. But, because no one is really >> taking him seriously, no one is presenting data sets that might prove him >> wrong. Also, not a statistician so can't comment on methodology or >> significance. >> >> Another of those connection things — a few years back, in a Quantum >> Consciousness type book, there was a discussion of resonance starting from >> the vibrating strings of physics fame to aggregates of strings creating >> blended vibrations to larger aggregates creating "harmonies" and feedback >> from "observers" blending everything — and when I was reading that it seemed >> to "resonate with Sheldrake." Being quite vague here, because the book is >> back home, but when I return I will pick it up and look at it again. >> >> davew >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, at 11:56 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: >>> >>>> Geez, Steve, >>>> >>>> I didn’t know that morphs COULD resonate. >>>> >>>> What on earth are you talking about? >>> What Dave just said in description of Sheldrake's theory of "morphic >>> resonance"... a resonant coupling amongst things which have the same >>> morphology (shape). In your case, you and Dave apparently have similar >>> "intellectual resonant chambers" which, in this treatment "begin to >>> resonate" as you spend enough time "coupling" (in conversation). >>> Following the analogy (stronger/more-formal than a metaphor I propose), >>> when you "couple" with others who you end up disagreeing with, I suspect it >>> starts out a bit like a barbershop quartet... one member hitting a tone and >>> another following by hitting the same tone, but as the progression gets >>> more complex, the *differences* in your tonality starts to expose itself as >>> dissonances. I credit you "harmonizing" with Dave in this (and perhaps >>> other) instance to Dave for *trying* to help you find the same note (as I >>> am here). >>> The Nick and Frank show (e.g. recent analogy to train conductors) seems to >>> be a deliberate study/applicatoin in dissonance... one of you hits a note >>> and the other intuitively (or with great intellectual effort) factors the >>> composing frequencies of that note and responds with a new note that has >>> *none* or *few* of the same composing frequencies, generating a complex set >>> of beat frequencies anew. I don't know how much this type of deliberate >>> dissonance is used in echolocating creatures (bats, cetaceans, ???) but >>> finding *dissonance* seems potentially *more useful* than resonance in some >>> cases? >>> - Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> Nicholas S. Thompson >>>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >>>> Clark University >>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >>>> >>>> *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Steven A >>>> Smith >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:32 PM >>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Interesting, David. With most people I find that if we talk long enough, >>>>> we disagree; with you it mostly works the other way. Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> Nick >>>>> >>>> Looks like a case of morphic resonance to me! >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >>>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >>> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
