For some reason I am seeing Nick's comments only when he is quoted by others.
Dave, your description of Buddhist breathing reminded me of when my father-in-law tried to teach me transcendental meditation. He was a retired attorney whose volunteer work was to teach TM to prisoners at the Indiana State Prison. I decided to try what he taught me the other day to see if I could get any benefit from it. The way he taught it to me was you try to remove all thoughts from your mind while silently repeating a word which, he said, didn't matter what it was. Anyway when I tried it recently I discovered that it was very difficult to keep thoughts out of my mind. The way I experienced it, I would think I was keeping thoughts out of my mind but then I would remember that I had had thoughts a few moments ago. This reminds me of my discussions with Nick about whether people think. If you try transcendental meditation you will realize that people can't not think. Frank ----------------------------------- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 3:51 AM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote: > Nick, > > There I was conversing along without an experiential care in the world, > when WHAM, a speed bump — Signs all the way down" slams my head into the > roof — massive headache. > > Two aspirins you might provide: > > 1) a concise explanation of how Peircian semiotics differs from the > semiotics I came to know and love; > > and 2) an essence preservation transformation of the simple narrative to > follow into "experience all the way down" and then into "signs all the way > down." > > Hatha Yoga 101 > > - breathing. > - attempt to precisely regulate breathing, i.e. five seconds in, five > seconds hold, five seconds exhale. > - intense resistance (lizard brain / aka autonomous nervous system) > "objects" "tries to wrest control" > - repeated practice —> success as "conscious habit" —> success as > "non-conscious" habit —> success as, apparently, retrained lizard brain > - increased energy > - REM brain waves, but no "awareness" of dreaming, nor residual "memory" > of same > > davew > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > > Hi, Steve, > > > > This is one of those moments when I have to be grateful you-guys let me > participate here because it is so obvious to me that I am out of my depth > in this conversation. But … > > > > You have my shroedinger (what is life?) crystal humming AND my Peirce > (it’s signs all the way down) crystal humming. The proposition, “It’s > signs all the way down” has to be understood as the proposition that a sign > is a certain kind of relation in which something stands in for something > for something else. Full stop. So all basic biological processes (think > enzymes) are sign systems. Another way to think of a sign system is as a > relation è*to a relation**ç**. *So is the sorting of the pebbles on a > beach a sign relation? What about the tendency of slush to maintain a 32 > degree temperature? Fill in your favorite example, here. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Steven A > Smith > *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2019 10:41 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake > > > > Dave - > > It felt a strange coincidence, but in the early days of SFx, we were > holding a "blender" on the topic of morphometrics at the same time that > Sheldrake was visiting SFe to speak at a "Science of Consciousness" > conference. This was the meeting at which he was stabbed by a 'fan' who > was apparently disturbed going in but more disturbed by Sheldrake's ideas? > > https://boingboing.net/2008/04/09/biologist-rupert-she.html > > Our "morphometrics" was an acutely more mundane conversation about the > practicalities of starting with laser scans of paleontological and > archaelogical artifacts and doing statistical analysis to try to reveal > "hidden" correlations. For example, we were hoping to be able to recognize > the "hand" in objects such as flaked lithic tools or hand-formed > ceramics. > > It is interesting to me that you bring up homeopathic "dilution to > nothing" based on the assumption that the water's quasi-crystalline > structure somehow holds something meaningful from the original inoculant > which had been titered into oblivion. > > Are you familiar with Mae-Wan Ho's work in quasi-crystals in water and > water emulsions? I understand that where she (and others more acutely) > have taken her research to fundamentally vitalistic places in a way that is > hard to not dismiss as pseudo-science, but the underlying science seems > pretty sound? My daughter who is a molecular biologist has been unable to > provide either confirmation nor refutation of the application of this work > in her own domain (flavivirii). > > I naively discarded a personal/professional correspondence (typed letter > on letterhead ca 1984) from Roger Penrose in response to a tiny bit of work > I did in pre-quantum consciousness (:Cellular automata in cytoskeletal > lattices" : > https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278984902598). > Penrose was postulating that it was aperiodic tilings (surprise!) that were > at the root of consciousness (in human brains). This was some years > before his "Emperor's New Mind" and pursuit of "Quantum Consciousness" > (with my co-author Stuart Hameroff). I am unable to get sufficient > traction on contemporary QC work including Penrose's nor Stu Kauffman's to > know what I believe on the topic. I am most sympathetic with the > Pibram/Bohm perspective, but that is more intuitive than anything. > > I understand that Marcus' has moved from LANL to a day-job in full-up > Quantum Computing. I don't know that Q computing has any implications for > Q consciousness, but it would seem that it can't help but lead to more > experience with quantum effects translated into human scales of time and > space. > > - Steve > > On 9/16/19 12:20 AM, Prof David West wrote: > > Yes, Sheldrake,yearns for a kind of metaphysical reality and scientific > validity that still eludes him. I think that have have reached, and are at > risk of blending with, homeopathy and the like cure like, the dilution of > "stuff" til there is no stuff left, but the "water has memory." > > > > All based, of course on shared resonance. > > > > Not sure about the data set. Most of it is from him or true believers and > suffers from finding what you are looking for. But, because no one is > really taking him seriously, no one is presenting data sets that might > prove him wrong. Also, not a statistician so can't comment on methodology > or significance. > > > > Another of those connection things — a few years back, in a Quantum > Consciousness type book, there was a discussion of resonance starting from > the vibrating strings of physics fame to aggregates of strings creating > blended vibrations to larger aggregates creating "harmonies" and feedback > from "observers" blending everything — and when I was reading that it > seemed to "resonate with Sheldrake." Being quite vague here, because the > book is back home, but when I return I will pick it up and look at it again. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, at 11:56 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > > > > Geez, Steve, > > > > I didn’t know that morphs COULD resonate. > > > > What on earth are you talking about? > > What Dave just said in description of Sheldrake's theory of "morphic > resonance"... a resonant coupling amongst things which have the same > morphology (shape). In your case, you and Dave apparently have similar > "intellectual resonant chambers" which, in this treatment "begin to > resonate" as you spend enough time "coupling" (in conversation). > > Following the analogy (stronger/more-formal than a metaphor I propose), > when you "couple" with others who you end up disagreeing with, I suspect it > starts out a bit like a barbershop quartet... one member hitting a tone > and another following by hitting the same tone, but as the progression gets > more complex, the *differences* in your tonality starts to expose itself > as dissonances. I credit you "harmonizing" with Dave in this (and perhaps > other) instance to Dave for *trying* to help you find the same note (as I > am here). > > The Nick and Frank show (e.g. recent analogy to train conductors) seems to > be a deliberate study/applicatoin in dissonance... one of you hits a note > and the other intuitively (or with great intellectual effort) factors the > composing frequencies of that note and responds with a new note that has > *none* or *few* of the same composing frequencies, generating a complex set > of beat frequencies anew. I don't know how much this type of deliberate > dissonance is used in echolocating creatures (bats, cetaceans, ???) but > finding *dissonance* seems potentially *more useful* than resonance in some > cases? > > - Steve > > > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith > *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:32 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake > > > > > > > > Interesting, David. With most people I find that if we talk long enough, > we disagree; with you it mostly works the other way. Thank you. > > > > Nick > > > > Looks like a case of morphic resonance to me! > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
