Thanks, Steve. There exist people who received it. ----------------------------------- Frank Wimberly
My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Sun, Oct 20, 2019, 7:32 PM Steven A Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Frank... > > This is the "hit" I got in my own archives of messages on FriAM > referencing TM > > For some reason I am seeing Nick's comments only when he is quoted by > others. > > Dave, your description of Buddhist breathing reminded me of when my > father-in-law tried to teach me transcendental meditation. He was a retired > attorney whose volunteer work was to teach TM to prisoners at the Indiana > State Prison. I decided to try what he taught me the other day to see if I > could get any benefit from it. The way he taught it to me was you try to > remove all thoughts from your mind while silently repeating a word which, > he said, didn't matter what it was. Anyway when I tried it recently I > discovered that it was very difficult to keep thoughts out of my mind. The > way I experienced it, I would think I was keeping thoughts out of my mind > but then I would remember that I had had thoughts a few moments ago. This > reminds me of my discussions with Nick about whether people think. If you > try transcendental meditation you will realize that people can't not think. > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 3:51 AM Prof David West <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Nick, >> >> There I was conversing along without an experiential care in the world, >> when WHAM, a speed bump — Signs all the way down" slams my head into the >> roof — massive headache. >> >> Two aspirins you might provide: >> >> 1) a concise explanation of how Peircian semiotics differs from the >> semiotics I came to know and love; >> >> and 2) an essence preservation transformation of the simple narrative to >> follow into "experience all the way down" and then into "signs all the way >> down." >> >> Hatha Yoga 101 >> >> - breathing. >> - attempt to precisely regulate breathing, i.e. five seconds in, five >> seconds hold, five seconds exhale. >> - intense resistance (lizard brain / aka autonomous nervous system) >> "objects" "tries to wrest control" >> - repeated practice —> success as "conscious habit" —> success as >> "non-conscious" habit —> success as, apparently, retrained lizard brain >> - increased energy >> - REM brain waves, but no "awareness" of dreaming, nor residual "memory" >> of same >> >> davew >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: >> >> Hi, Steve, >> >> >> >> This is one of those moments when I have to be grateful you-guys let me >> participate here because it is so obvious to me that I am out of my depth >> in this conversation. But … >> >> >> >> You have my shroedinger (what is life?) crystal humming AND my Peirce >> (it’s signs all the way down) crystal humming. The proposition, “It’s >> signs all the way down” has to be understood as the proposition that a sign >> is a certain kind of relation in which something stands in for something >> for something else. Full stop. So all basic biological processes (think >> enzymes) are sign systems. Another way to think of a sign system is as a >> relation è*to a relation**ç**. *So is the sorting of the pebbles on a >> beach a sign relation? What about the tendency of slush to maintain a 32 >> degree temperature? Fill in your favorite example, here. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Steven A >> Smith >> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2019 10:41 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake >> >> >> >> Dave - >> >> It felt a strange coincidence, but in the early days of SFx, we were >> holding a "blender" on the topic of morphometrics at the same time that >> Sheldrake was visiting SFe to speak at a "Science of Consciousness" >> conference. This was the meeting at which he was stabbed by a 'fan' who >> was apparently disturbed going in but more disturbed by Sheldrake's ideas? >> >> https://boingboing.net/2008/04/09/biologist-rupert-she.html >> >> Our "morphometrics" was an acutely more mundane conversation about the >> practicalities of starting with laser scans of paleontological and >> archaelogical artifacts and doing statistical analysis to try to reveal >> "hidden" correlations. For example, we were hoping to be able to recognize >> the "hand" in objects such as flaked lithic tools or hand-formed >> ceramics. >> >> It is interesting to me that you bring up homeopathic "dilution to >> nothing" based on the assumption that the water's quasi-crystalline >> structure somehow holds something meaningful from the original inoculant >> which had been titered into oblivion. >> >> Are you familiar with Mae-Wan Ho's work in quasi-crystals in water and >> water emulsions? I understand that where she (and others more acutely) >> have taken her research to fundamentally vitalistic places in a way that is >> hard to not dismiss as pseudo-science, but the underlying science seems >> pretty sound? My daughter who is a molecular biologist has been unable to >> provide either confirmation nor refutation of the application of this work >> in her own domain (flavivirii). >> >> I naively discarded a personal/professional correspondence (typed letter >> on letterhead ca 1984) from Roger Penrose in response to a tiny bit of work >> I did in pre-quantum consciousness (:Cellular automata in cytoskeletal >> lattices" : >> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278984902598). >> Penrose was postulating that it was aperiodic tilings (surprise!) that were >> at the root of consciousness (in human brains). This was some years >> before his "Emperor's New Mind" and pursuit of "Quantum Consciousness" >> (with my co-author Stuart Hameroff). I am unable to get sufficient >> traction on contemporary QC work including Penrose's nor Stu Kauffman's to >> know what I believe on the topic. I am most sympathetic with the >> Pibram/Bohm perspective, but that is more intuitive than anything. >> >> I understand that Marcus' has moved from LANL to a day-job in full-up >> Quantum Computing. I don't know that Q computing has any implications for >> Q consciousness, but it would seem that it can't help but lead to more >> experience with quantum effects translated into human scales of time and >> space. >> >> - Steve >> >> On 9/16/19 12:20 AM, Prof David West wrote: >> >> Yes, Sheldrake,yearns for a kind of metaphysical reality and scientific >> validity that still eludes him. I think that have have reached, and are at >> risk of blending with, homeopathy and the like cure like, the dilution of >> "stuff" til there is no stuff left, but the "water has memory." >> >> >> >> All based, of course on shared resonance. >> >> >> >> Not sure about the data set. Most of it is from him or true believers and >> suffers from finding what you are looking for. But, because no one is >> really taking him seriously, no one is presenting data sets that might >> prove him wrong. Also, not a statistician so can't comment on methodology >> or significance. >> >> >> >> Another of those connection things — a few years back, in a Quantum >> Consciousness type book, there was a discussion of resonance starting from >> the vibrating strings of physics fame to aggregates of strings creating >> blended vibrations to larger aggregates creating "harmonies" and feedback >> from "observers" blending everything — and when I was reading that it >> seemed to "resonate with Sheldrake." Being quite vague here, because the >> book is back home, but when I return I will pick it up and look at it again. >> >> >> >> davew >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, at 11:56 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> Geez, Steve, >> >> >> >> I didn’t know that morphs COULD resonate. >> >> >> >> What on earth are you talking about? >> >> What Dave just said in description of Sheldrake's theory of "morphic >> resonance"... a resonant coupling amongst things which have the same >> morphology (shape). In your case, you and Dave apparently have similar >> "intellectual resonant chambers" which, in this treatment "begin to >> resonate" as you spend enough time "coupling" (in conversation). >> >> Following the analogy (stronger/more-formal than a metaphor I propose), >> when you "couple" with others who you end up disagreeing with, I suspect it >> starts out a bit like a barbershop quartet... one member hitting a tone >> and another following by hitting the same tone, but as the progression gets >> more complex, the *differences* in your tonality starts to expose itself >> as dissonances. I credit you "harmonizing" with Dave in this (and perhaps >> other) instance to Dave for *trying* to help you find the same note (as I >> am here). >> >> The Nick and Frank show (e.g. recent analogy to train conductors) seems >> to be a deliberate study/applicatoin in dissonance... one of you hits a >> note and the other intuitively (or with great intellectual effort) factors >> the composing frequencies of that note and responds with a new note that >> has *none* or *few* of the same composing frequencies, generating a complex >> set of beat frequencies anew. I don't know how much this type of >> deliberate dissonance is used in echolocating creatures (bats, cetaceans, >> ???) but finding *dissonance* seems potentially *more useful* than >> resonance in some cases? >> >> - Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam [mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:32 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Interesting, David. With most people I find that if we talk long enough, >> we disagree; with you it mostly works the other way. Thank you. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Looks like a case of morphic resonance to me! >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
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