Frank... This is the "hit" I got in my own archives of messages on FriAM referencing TM
> For some reason I am seeing Nick's comments only when he is quoted by > others. > > Dave, your description of Buddhist breathing reminded me of when my > father-in-law tried to teach me transcendental meditation. He was a > retired attorney whose volunteer work was to teach TM to prisoners at > the Indiana State Prison. I decided to try what he taught me the other > day to see if I could get any benefit from it. The way he taught it to > me was you try to remove all thoughts from your mind while silently > repeating a word which, he said, didn't matter what it was. Anyway > when I tried it recently I discovered that it was very difficult to > keep thoughts out of my mind. The way I experienced it, I would think > I was keeping thoughts out of my mind but then I would remember that I > had had thoughts a few moments ago. This reminds me of my discussions > with Nick about whether people think. If you try transcendental > meditation you will realize that people can't not think. > > Frank > > ----------------------------------- > Frank Wimberly > > My memoir: > https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > My scientific publications: > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 3:51 AM Prof David West <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Nick, > > There I was conversing along without an experiential care in the > world, when WHAM, a speed bump — Signs all the way down" slams my > head into the roof — massive headache. > > Two aspirins you might provide: > > 1) a concise explanation of how Peircian semiotics differs from > the semiotics I came to know and love; > > and 2) an essence preservation transformation of the simple > narrative to follow into "experience all the way down" and then > into "signs all the way down." > > Hatha Yoga 101 > > - breathing. > - attempt to precisely regulate breathing, i.e. five seconds in, > five seconds hold, five seconds exhale. > - intense resistance (lizard brain / aka autonomous nervous > system) "objects" "tries to wrest control" > - repeated practice —> success as "conscious habit" —> success as > "non-conscious" habit —> success as, apparently, retrained lizard > brain > - increased energy > - REM brain waves, but no "awareness" of dreaming, nor residual > "memory" of same > > davew > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: >> >> Hi, Steve, >> >> >> >> This is one of those moments when I have to be grateful you-guys >> let me participate here because it is so obvious to me that I am >> out of my depth in this conversation. But … >> >> >> >> You have my shroedinger (what is life?) crystal humming AND my >> Peirce (it’s signs all the way down) crystal humming. The >> proposition, “It’s signs all the way down” has to be understood >> as the proposition that a sign is a certain kind of relation in >> which something stands in for something for something else. Full >> stop. So all basic biological processes (think enzymes) are sign >> systems. Another way to think of a sign system is as a relation >> è/to a relation//ç//. /So is the sorting of the pebbles on a >> beach a sign relation? What about the tendency of slush to >> maintain a 32 degree temperature? Fill in your favorite example, >> here. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> *From:*Friam [mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith >> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2019 10:41 AM >> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake >> >> >> >> Dave - >> >> It felt a strange coincidence, but in the early days of SFx, we >> were holding a "blender" on the topic of morphometrics at the >> same time that Sheldrake was visiting SFe to speak at a "Science >> of Consciousness" conference. This was the meeting at which he >> was stabbed by a 'fan' who was apparently disturbed going in but >> more disturbed by Sheldrake's ideas? >> >> https://boingboing.net/2008/04/09/biologist-rupert-she.html >> >> Our "morphometrics" was an acutely more mundane conversation >> about the practicalities of starting with laser scans of >> paleontological and archaelogical artifacts and doing >> statistical analysis to try to reveal "hidden" correlations. For >> example, we were hoping to be able to recognize the "hand" in >> objects such as flaked lithic tools or hand-formed ceramics. >> >> It is interesting to me that you bring up homeopathic "dilution >> to nothing" based on the assumption that the water's >> quasi-crystalline structure somehow holds something meaningful >> from the original inoculant which had been titered into oblivion. >> >> Are you familiar with Mae-Wan Ho's work in quasi-crystals in >> water and water emulsions? I understand that where she (and >> others more acutely) have taken her research to fundamentally >> vitalistic places in a way that is hard to not dismiss as >> pseudo-science, but the underlying science seems pretty sound? >> My daughter who is a molecular biologist has been unable to >> provide either confirmation nor refutation of the application of >> this work in her own domain (flavivirii). >> >> I naively discarded a personal/professional correspondence (typed >> letter on letterhead ca 1984) from Roger Penrose in response to a >> tiny bit of work I did in pre-quantum consciousness (:Cellular >> automata in cytoskeletal lattices" : >> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278984902598). >> Penrose was postulating that it was aperiodic tilings (surprise!) >> that were at the root of consciousness (in human brains). This >> was some years before his "Emperor's New Mind" and pursuit of >> "Quantum Consciousness" (with my co-author Stuart Hameroff). I >> am unable to get sufficient traction on contemporary QC work >> including Penrose's nor Stu Kauffman's to know what I believe on >> the topic. I am most sympathetic with the Pibram/Bohm >> perspective, but that is more intuitive than anything. >> >> I understand that Marcus' has moved from LANL to a day-job in >> full-up Quantum Computing. I don't know that Q computing has >> any implications for Q consciousness, but it would seem that it >> can't help but lead to more experience with quantum effects >> translated into human scales of time and space. >> >> - Steve >> >> On 9/16/19 12:20 AM, Prof David West wrote: >> >> Yes, Sheldrake,yearns for a kind of metaphysical reality and >> scientific validity that still eludes him. I think that have >> have reached, and are at risk of blending with, homeopathy >> and the like cure like, the dilution of "stuff" til there is >> no stuff left, but the "water has memory." >> >> >> >> All based, of course on shared resonance. >> >> >> >> Not sure about the data set. Most of it is from him or true >> believers and suffers from finding what you are looking for. >> But, because no one is really taking him seriously, no one is >> presenting data sets that might prove him wrong. Also, not a >> statistician so can't comment on methodology or significance. >> >> >> >> Another of those connection things — a few years back, in a >> Quantum Consciousness type book, there was a discussion of >> resonance starting from the vibrating strings of physics fame >> to aggregates of strings creating blended vibrations to >> larger aggregates creating "harmonies" and feedback from >> "observers" blending everything — and when I was reading that >> it seemed to "resonate with Sheldrake." Being quite vague >> here, because the book is back home, but when I return I will >> pick it up and look at it again. >> >> >> >> davew >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, at 11:56 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> Geez, Steve, >> >> >> >> I didn’t know that morphs COULD resonate. >> >> >> >> What on earth are you talking about? >> >> What Dave just said in description of Sheldrake's theory >> of "morphic resonance"... a resonant coupling amongst >> things which have the same morphology (shape). In your >> case, you and Dave apparently have similar "intellectual >> resonant chambers" which, in this treatment "begin to >> resonate" as you spend enough time "coupling" (in >> conversation). >> >> Following the analogy (stronger/more-formal than a >> metaphor I propose), when you "couple" with others who >> you end up disagreeing with, I suspect it starts out a >> bit like a barbershop quartet... one member hitting a >> tone and another following by hitting the same tone, but >> as the progression gets more complex, the *differences* >> in your tonality starts to expose itself as >> dissonances. I credit you "harmonizing" with Dave in >> this (and perhaps other) instance to Dave for *trying* to >> help you find the same note (as I am here). >> >> The Nick and Frank show (e.g. recent analogy to train >> conductors) seems to be a deliberate study/applicatoin in >> dissonance... one of you hits a note and the other >> intuitively (or with great intellectual effort) factors >> the composing frequencies of that note and responds with >> a new note that has *none* or *few* of the same composing >> frequencies, generating a complex set of beat frequencies >> anew. I don't know how much this type of deliberate >> dissonance is used in echolocating creatures (bats, >> cetaceans, ???) but finding *dissonance* seems >> potentially *more useful* than resonance in some cases? >> >> - Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology >> >> Clark University >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ >> >> >> >> *From:*Friam [mailto:[email protected]] *On >> Behalf Of *Steven A Smith >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 15, 2019 5:32 PM >> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Unmediated perception - sheldrake >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Interesting, David. With most people I find that >> if we talk long enough, we disagree; with you it >> mostly works the other way. Thank you. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Looks like a case of morphic resonance to me! >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> to unsubscribe >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. >> Strangelove >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> to unsubscribe >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. >> Strangelove >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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