I must agree and disagree. Yes, my statement was an oversimplification, but not a caricature.
The caveat I should have included concerns the "distance" from where we are at the moment and the point at which the objective would be achieved. I stand by my assertion that for objectives like the UN goals shared by Pieter and the less specific objectives in Steve's post, failure is assuredly more likely than success — based on the arguments presented in the book. davew On Thu, May 27, 2021, at 8:52 AM, uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ wrote: > We have to be careful not to Jump the Shark. The book doesn't make the > argument you caricature, here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with > objectives and measurement, in general. What the book targets are > *rigid* objectives and tight *controls*. If you've been paying > attention to FriAM's recent threads, you'll see conversations about > side-effects ([cough] "epiphenomena") as compared to purposeful > objectives. You'll see long windy threads about the existence (and > definition of) free will, where the very concept of > intention/objectives/agency falls apart completely. > > Nobody on this list has forgotten Stanley's point. The question is one > of degree, not kind. How draconian *should* an error-correction > controller be? How does one set [multi-]objectives so as to balance > exploration and exploitation of the artifacts produced along the way? > > So, no. You're simply wrong on that point. Setting ambitious objectives > and *monitoring* progression closely does not assure failure. It's > *rigid* objectives and tight *control* that assures failure (or, more > accurately, fragility -- "failure" is the wrong word for what's meant > here). > > On 5/26/21 7:32 PM, Prof David West wrote: > > The book argues that /"setting high level ideals" /(objectives) and /"doing > > enough measurement and modeling to monitor how well we are doing" /pretty > > much assures failure. > > > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
