Nick, FWIW, here's a thread from 16 years ago: http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/miffed-td520563.html#a520571
And Eric Smith's response the same week under "Hurricanes and Engines" http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/Hurricanes-and-engines-td520579.html *If we accept a hurricane as a type of thermodynamic engine, can you accept that the engine is in the category of Natural Design?* _______________________________________________________________________ [email protected] <[email protected]> CEO, Simtable http://www.simtable.com 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505 office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828 twitter: @simtable z <http://zoom.com/j/5055775828>oom.simtable.com On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 2:08 PM Stephen Guerin <[email protected]> wrote: > > Nick, > > Whenever we discussed your Natural Design Perspective over the last 15 > years, I've tried to form a bridge toward Complexity, Self-Organization, > Least Action, and related ideas. From your Natural Design Wikipedia entry > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_design>: > > Natural design is design-without-a-designer, in the same sense that > natural selection is selection-without-a-selector. Design is a term we use > to refer to a matching of form and function, and we can recognize the > presence of design independently of the cause of that design > > > *Can we say a hurricane is a naturally designed form that matches the > function of dissipating a temperature gradient?* In this case mass > density and angular momentum break symmetry and become structured as a > "design". As you know, I've asked this question countless times, but can't > recall your answer. I am trying to open the door to design that doesn't > presuppose natural and sexual selection as the assumed mechanism of > biological design. > > On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 11:39 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I have been wondering all week why none of you have sent me insults about >> the text below. It appears that ONE of the reasons may be that I never >> sent it to you. Well, now is your chance. From the natural design >> perspective, design is a property of things, not of minds that make >> things. The perspective asserts that a thing is experienced as designed >> when it is one of an array of things existing in an array of environments, >> such that there is a systematic relation between things and environments. >> Against the background of such systematic relations, it becomes possible >> to say that this particular thing is well-designed for this particular >> environment. Over the years, we have used many different examples to >> illustrate this principle. >> >
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