By the way an example of a cycle with no delay, unless time isn't continuous, is a pair of ladders leaning against each other so that neither falls. That violates assumptions of our causal discovery algorithms.
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 7:57 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > An element of a (very short) cycle. Note that there has to be a delay. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 7:44 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Frank, >> >> >> >> In your lingo, what is an effect called that feeds back on its cause? >> >> >> >> Nick Thompson >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2021 7:15 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> [email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation >> >> >> >> Yes, for example. >> >> >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 6:06 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I guess you mean A(t=0)->B(t=1), B(t=1)->A(t=2), not B(t=1)->A(t=0) >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:46 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> [email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation >> >> >> >> I did a number of experiments in the use of causal learning methods to >> infer genetic regulatory networks using actual and simulated data. Those >> networks have loops of a variety of lengths. References available upon >> request. >> >> >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 4:41 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I just don't see how that is a "loop" except that repeated application of >> such a matrix could lead to oscillation. It sounded like somehow >> causality was violated and not just obscured. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ? glen >> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:38 PM >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected] >> > >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation >> >> Right, high dimension. More important than the matrix being large is that >> it has non-zero cross terms. >> >> On November 28, 2021 8:42:37 AM PST, Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >The operators are large (in the sense of a matrix) whether or not they >> are intended to be? >> > >> >> On Nov 28, 2021, at 6:20 AM, ⛧ glen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Any of the evolutionary operators across scales, from energy exchange >> at the finest to ecosystem reengineering at the coarsest. >> >> >> >>> On November 27, 2021 7:33:15 AM PST, Marcus Daniels < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I’ve heard these words from you Glen, but I have no idea what these >> loops are or what you might be talking about. >> >>> >> -- >> glen ⛧ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >> >> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: >> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> >
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