I would say yes. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 8:49 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: > > Can’t the delay be in arbitrarily-small discretized units (e.g. > picoseconds) if needed? > > On Nov 28, 2021, at 7:15 PM, Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > By the way an example of a cycle with no delay, unless time isn't > continuous, is a pair of ladders leaning against each other so that neither > falls. That violates assumptions of our causal discovery algorithms. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 7:57 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> An element of a (very short) cycle. Note that there has to be a delay. >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 7:44 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Frank, >>> >>> >>> >>> In your lingo, what is an effect called that feeds back on its cause? >>> >>> >>> >>> Nick Thompson >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2021 7:15 PM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, for example. >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Frank C. Wimberly >>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>> >>> 505 670-9918 >>> Santa Fe, NM >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 6:06 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I guess you mean A(t=0)->B(t=1), B(t=1)->A(t=2), not B(t=1)->A(t=0) >>> >>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:46 PM >>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation >>> >>> >>> >>> I did a number of experiments in the use of causal learning methods to >>> infer genetic regulatory networks using actual and simulated data. Those >>> networks have loops of a variety of lengths. References available upon >>> request. >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Frank C. Wimberly >>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>> >>> 505 670-9918 >>> Santa Fe, NM >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 4:41 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I just don't see how that is a "loop" except that repeated application >>> of such a matrix could lead to oscillation. It sounded like somehow >>> causality was violated and not just obscured. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ? glen >>> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 3:38 PM >>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>> [email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The epiphenomenality relation >>> >>> Right, high dimension. More important than the matrix being large is >>> that it has non-zero cross terms. >>> >>> On November 28, 2021 8:42:37 AM PST, Marcus Daniels < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >The operators are large (in the sense of a matrix) whether or not they >>> are intended to be? >>> > >>> >> On Nov 28, 2021, at 6:20 AM, ⛧ glen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Any of the evolutionary operators across scales, from energy >>> exchange at the finest to ecosystem reengineering at the coarsest. >>> >> >>> >>> On November 27, 2021 7:33:15 AM PST, Marcus Daniels < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I’ve heard these words from you Glen, but I have no idea what these >>> loops are or what you might be talking about. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> glen ⛧ >>> >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >>> >>> .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - >>> . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> archives: >>> 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >>> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >>> >> > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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