I am not saying such a system would not need to be predatory or parasitic, just that it can be arranged to preserve the contents of a library.
> On Apr 12, 2022, at 4:29 PM, glen <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dude. Every time I think we could stop, you say something I object to. >8^D > You're doing it on purpose. I'm sure of it ... like pulling the wings off > flies and cackling like a madman. > > No, the maintenance protocol must be *part of* the meat-like intelligence. > That's why I mention things like suicide or starving yourself because your > wife stops feeding you. To me, a forever-autopoietic system seems like a > perpetual motion machine ... there's something being taken for granted by the > conception ... some unlimited free energy or somesuch. > >> On 4/12/22 16:16, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> That meat-like intelligence could live forever with the right maintenance >> protocol. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen >> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 4:11 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive >> heuristics >> Ha! 8^D >> But neither the ANN clone, nor the *stereotyped* heuristics generated by an >> autonomous car capture the high-dimensional opportunity I believe meat >> organisms experience. Yes, the subsequent evolution of the ANNs and the >> stereotyped out-group are more concrete than most synthetic minds. But my >> claim, were I to actually hold it and try to state it more clearly, is that >> meat, living in meat space, is more open than those 2 examples. It's the >> openness that provides the meat with the opportunity. The ANNs and >> autonomous car are more fixed, more closed. >> However, I do believe machine intelligence *will* reach meat intelligence. >> But it'll have to look a lot more like meat intelligence to do so. It's >> already looking a lot more like meat intelligence than it was even 10 years >> ago. And if we stay at this supralinear rate (or higher), it'll happen >> sooner than I, this meat bag, thinks. >>> On 4/12/22 15:58, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>> Now it is entirely possible to take a massive pre-trained neural net like >>> GPT3 and run it in two places at once or have different instances use a >>> baseline and take divergent paths from different training. >>> None of that is possible for humans, at least yet. Some autonomous cars >>> even know enough to be afraid of the police! (Regarding concreteness.) >>> https://electrek.co/2022/04/10/gm-cruise-autonomous-taxi-pulled-over-by-police-in-san-francisco-without-humans-bolts-off-u-cruise-responds/ >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 3:47 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive >>> heuristics >>> >>> Exactly. Both of these (low turnover wisdom propagation & "flat" infoscape) >>> fail in my conception because they lack the concrete (definit) particulars. >>> Even if we have one 400 year old vampire telling funny stories to a 30 year >>> vampire about a now-exploded vampire from 700 years ago, the sheer *number* >>> of anecdotes required to capture a 400 year lifespan *forces* some >>> abstraction ... some leaving out of important detail. >>> >>> And even if the concrete details of why, say, Galileo was such an OCD >>> journaling nerd can be found in biographies or whatnot, actually reading >>> and learning about all the persnickety nonsense that was *crucial* to the >>> arrival at, emergence of, any given inflection point, ... even if that >>> concrete detail is logged/documented out there somewhere, nobody can learn >>> it all. Each learner is forced to take an abstracted slice through it. >>> >>> What the commitment to meat space interactions is, is a way to ensure that >>> the concreteness remains ... at least within *some* small "open ball", >>> you're getting a high-dimensional opportunity. I think of it in terms of >>> the space vs time tradeoff and (yes, broken record) the parallelism >>> theorem. Sure, a sequential system can simulate a parallel one perfectly, >>> but only if you give it the time to do so ... and the amount of time it >>> takes to do it is related to the amount of space the parallel system uses. >>> Another way to think of it is the project management triangle: cheap, fast, >>> or good. But those are low-dimensional. The space being balanced by >>> organisms in the world is high-dimensional. >>> >>> On 4/12/22 14:19, Steve Smith wrote: >>>> Generations past (and under-mobile near-subsistence cultures today) have >>>> more intergenerational households and neighborhoods providing the >>>> heterarchical/holarchical connection/communication you suggest. Or so my >>>> "just so" story relates. >>>> >>>> The expansive breadth offered by global (near-instantaneous, global) >>>> communication/publication/relationship connections possibly makes up for >>>> that in the large, a major refactoring of problems and solutions. >>>> >>>> I personally suffer from the lack of cross-cultural, cross-class >>>> experience of frequenting a neighborhood "watering hole" >>>> (pub/tavern/saloon) in the way Glen seems to enjoy (cultivate). My oldest >>>> regular drinking-philosophy buddy would be over 110 today (he died over 20 >>>> years ago from alcohol-related illness) and until about 5 years ago I had >>>> a small cohort of 30ish imbibing interlocutors. I blame COVID, but the >>>> reasons are probably larger and more nefarious. >>> >>> > > -- > Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . 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