This japanese toddlers put me in mind of Ten Meter Tower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU2AvkKA4kM. Is he going to jump? Is she climbing back down?
-- rec -- On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 4:48 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: > If there is something essential about turnover, then it seems like the > rate would be informative. Why 75 years and not 25 or 1000? Why should > every kind of life form conform to about 75 years? > Is there a universal logical depth that explains the need for cognitive > death, and thus death? If we change the processor rate to be 100 times > faster than a human, should those gizmos or organisms expire more quickly? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 1:38 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive > heuristics > > Yeah, that article is typical Haidt, full of just enough good evidence to > blind you to the sanctimonious doctrinal pedantry that surrounds it. Within > several clumps of postulates, one clump as small as 2 sentences, he > contradicts himself but somehow thinks the narrative stays coherent. Pffft. > > *If* there is something structural about brain/CNS animals that allows > further flex and slop between mind and body, that something ... that > "muscle" ... will be exercised through generational turnover ... i.e. > death. Trying to forcibly graft "our" (in scare quotes because I disagree > with Haidt so starkly) nostalgia onto the evolving culture is guaranteed to > fail. > > p.s. An important element directly contradicting Haidt's "get off my lawn" > is laid out here: > https://doctorow.medium.com/the-algospeak-dialect-74961b4803b7 It takes > me longer and longer to learn new lingo. And facility with a lingo is often > used for gatekeeping. But, from my own perspective, it's trivial to gauge > the authenticity of an in-group's commitment to their gestalt by watching > how they induct/indoctrinate proximal outsiders. I can still land an "E for > effort" in most contexts, where I try anyway. > > > On 4/12/22 11:59, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > For example, this article [1] speaks to the potential fragility of > cultural evolution. Wouldn't it make sense to loosen the mind/cognition > coupling if it is possible to do so? > > What is uniquely useful about human animals as an adaptive vehicle? > > > > [1] > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 11:50 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive > heuristics > > > > Well, I'd argue that cultural evolution is a higher order language like > chemistry to physics, biology to chemistry, sociology to biology, etc. We > can use the higher order language agnostically, leaving the metaphysics for > the philosophers (until/unless practical demands force us to solve some > cross-trophic relation). > > > > On 4/12/22 11:39, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >> Or to put it another way, what good is cultural evolution? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > >> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 11:36 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive > heuristics > >> > >> But going back to less memorable/intuitive communicated heuristics, > *if* our minds/cognitions are loosely coupled to our bodies (I'm thinking > more polyphenism and robustness, not dualism), then we should be able to > see the memorability/intuitiveness increase. But if there's a large portion > of mind/cognition embedded/embodied in our flesh, then > memorability/intuitiveness of new ideas will remain unrelated through > generations of dead/replaced bodies. > >> > >> My claims that communication is illusory and all thought is tightly > coupled to one's body reject the former. I.e. I don't think > memorability/intuitiveness increases as ideas age. Rather, as bodies die, > the new bodies are slightly restructured to better fit those ideas. It's a > fake-it-till-you-make-it. The only reason we have young kids that > understand quantum coherence (or Instagram) better than the old farts did > is because the young kids grew into the idea. > >> > >> No dead bodies ⇒ no cultural evolution. > >> > >> On 4/12/22 11:19, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>> The contrast between fewer replication cycles of vampires that live > thousands of years vs. many generations of short-lived mortals seems > related.. > >>> Is the walk deep and informative, or is the key thing to stay away > from attractors? > >>> If there are truly billions of individuals, then short trips can > explore a large space -- if there is communication between individuals and > across generations. > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of glen > >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 11:05 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive > heuristics > >>> > >>> What always seems to be missing in these discussions is the (my?) > always present ability to [re]parse the world at will. Yes, there are > gravity wells or attractors where if you start insisting on a security > detail everywhere you go, you'll end up like Trump, Romney, or Sanders, > surrounded by a nearly impermeable membrane that disallows authentic "go > with the flow" non-consciousness/non-deliberation. But my tendency to (or > ability to) prefer writing a script/macro over doing some computation > manually doesn't interfere in a substantial way with my ability to do the > manual labor in any given iteration. The size of the computation can > interfere, but not the attractor. > >>> > >>> That's what makes me episodic, the lack of stickiness to whatever > professionalization I've engaged in before. On a humble day, I claim it's > because I'm just too stupid and lazy to really invest in building the > attractor. On an arrogant day, I claim those who build and get stuck in > such attractors are mindless automatons who can't think their way out of a > paper bag. >8^D > >>> > >>> On 4/12/22 10:42, Marcus Daniels wrote: > >>>> Vitalik Buterin remarked, “An emotional part of me says that once you > start going down that way, /professionalizing/ is just another word for > losing your soul” [1] > >>>> > >>>> That sounds plausible. However, I have long thought that an > important part of productivity is to find consciousness-lowering habits. > Just attach to whatever is front of you and forget about the motivations > and the big picture. For one thing, it is rare that one can really change > the big picture. For two it is necessary to get in the critical path of a > process to disrupt it. The nihilistic episodic personality doesn’t have to > impose a narrative before going on excursion. Too much evaluation and > reflection and one’s action as a virion cannot move forward! There is > plenty of time to wake up a judgmental brain process once embedded. But > what are judgements really informed by if sampling is based on an > outsiders’ view? This kind of ties into Glen’s local reset idea. > >>>> > >>>> [1] https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/ < > https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/> > >>>> > >>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:19 AM > >>>> *To:* [email protected] > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Selective cultural processes generate adaptive > heuristics > >>>> > >>>> Marcus - > >>>> > >>>> Steve writes: > >>>> > >>>> < Arguments for generational rather than > Individual/personal growth and transformation... > >>>> > >>>> “I don’t think we should try to have people live for a > really long time,” Musk recently told Insider. “It would cause asphyxiation > of society because the truth is, most people don’t change their mind. They > just die. So if they don’t die, we will be stuck with old ideas and society > wouldn’t advance.” > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Maybe not? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01769-4 < > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01769-4> > >>>> > >>>> I do think there is plenty of room for individual > growth/transformation in one lifetime and perhaps Psi research will > (continue to) provide yet-more tools for facilitating that. > >>>> > >>>> It isn't clear to me that merely loosening up neural pathways so that > they can be re-created yields healthy growth as such. I'd like to think > it can be, but as the neo-luddite that I tend toward, I can't help but > seeing the myriad ways it can go wrong as well. This negative ideation is > probably a self-referential example of the topic itself. > >>>> > >>>> Following RECs original subject: I'm interested I suppose in > understanding more-better the myriad scales and dimensions of adaptivity of > "Life Itself", with the human (individual as well as cultural) experience > being the one most relevant to my own life, but not exclusively. > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > -- > Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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