DaveW -
The central question: is there a difference between a 'model' of something and a 'theory' of something?
After reading your full description of your question and Eric's own maunderings on (a tangent to?) the topic, I am both (over)full of thoughts and at a loss.
To me: a model is a representation of a subset of what we know about something; a theory is the complete body of knowledge.
I am at a loss because there are so many domains in which this language can have similar but different meanings. Your reference to Buddhist Cosmology and Mandalas being one, card-catalogs and libraries another, and (esoteric) Science as exemplified by QM. Your domain of interest/expression seems to be a bit more in the realm of folksonomy (and beyond) elicitation/construction? The goal of eliciting/creating a shared world-view (cosmology)?
I believe one of the more useful distinctions between model and theory is that "a theory is a model which is testable". This would only seem to apply to formal models and theories of course. To what extent such formalisms apply to everyday discourse or more loosely (less formal) attempts to describe the world is perhaps what you are asking about?
Colloquially (and without support of my last statement) I take Buddhist Cosmology to be (intended to be) a Theory... in fact a "Theory of Everything" and any given Mandala to be a *model*.
The question of whether a card-catalog is a "model" devolves (I think) to it being an "indexable model" or perhaps a model of the library (or an idealized library such as the LOC or even Borges "Library of Babel"? In your assertion that a model is a subset of a theory, I think this is apt... this implementation (physical cards in a physical drawer in a physical cabinet in a physical building) of a model (of indices into the titles, keywords and presumed contents of a body of written/visual material) of a collection of same, exists within a larger "theory" of how knowledge can be represented and organized.
In my book-in-development I talk about how to create a shared theory by having people come together and tell stories about their domain. The telling of stories creates a shared theory of the domain (or some subset of it that is of immediate concern) that continues to exist—in the participant's heads. While the story telling proceeds two graphics are generated: one with the stories themselves (as 'index cards') and relations among stories, e.g., story a extends story b, story c provides an alternative case for a, x is a revision of a, etc.; and two, a Gestalt Map that shows objects as bubbles and connecting lines as relations among those objects.
I don't know that your project as described here aspires to come up with a formal theory or set of models related to that theory so much as to build a working methodology for building a shared understanding/appreciation/agreement among groups of people through structured storytelling? Maybe it is implied that someone with a more scholarly bent/aspiration would either provide a more formal backdrop for this project to register on, but that is not the primary goal?
Two references come to mind for me here... the first is pretty tangential but relevant because it has been referenced on-list before and has a haunting resonance for me to what I heard when I first read your description, and that is Herman Hesse's Glass Bead Game <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Bead_Game> which Stephen has brought up a few times.
The other is my recent discovery of Tyson Yunkaporta's Sand Talk <https://birchbarkbooks.com/products/sand-talk> where most relevantly to this discussion he uses the term "Yarning" to describe something parallel to what I think you are describing (the iterative collecting/sharing/correlating of stories in a domain).
In Mathematical Logic (circling back to the more formal) there are specific meanings ascribed to both model and theory that might be useful for background. From the Wikipedia page on Model Theory <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_theory>:
Inmathematical logic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_logic>,*model theory*is the study of the relationship betweenformal theories <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_(mathematical_logic)>(a collection ofsentences <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_(mathematical_logic)>in aformal language <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_language>expressing statements about amathematical structure <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_(mathematical_logic)>), and their models (those structures in which the statements of the theory hold).^[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_theory#cite_note-1>We haven't beaten the dead horse of metaphor here entirely yet, but I will refer to Glen's most recent informal concession? that a metaphor is (just?) a map or maybe more to the point it provides a map from one domain to another. Technically I believe that is what a model does as well, though a mathematical model maps into the domain of mathematical language/structures while generally metaphors ground out into a domain of human experience which may or may not have subsequent iterative mappings into formal mathematics. The "beating of a dead horse", for example, references a complex set of notions about the very human experience of "owning" another living being, expecting to elicit work from it through physical punishment, etc. which can (and surely has been) be abstracted into a more formal definition of ownership, coercion, useful work, etc. but whose utility depends more on the receiver's ability to imagine being the beater of a *literal* draft animal whose death is a direct or indirect result of previous and continued beatings.
I'll go check with Magister Ludi, Tyson Yunkaporta, Luis Borges and the Venerable Losang Samtang for more perspective and if you are lucky, keep the results to myself.
- Steve
Those on the other side of the debate contend that these are models, just like the models they typically use in software development.. I say they are not, they are merely a form of 'external memory' a collection of evocative triggers whose sole purpose is to prompt a 'recall to mind' of the actual stories that were told involving those objects or those relations. The Gestalt Map, in my mind, represents nothing and could not—as is assumed about all other models—convey information to anyone who had not participated in the story telling session. Specific questions: 1- Is the Wheel of Life mandala, (attached) a model of Tibetan Buddhist Cosmology? Or, does it merely serve the purpose of recalling to mind the stories that a Tibetan would have heard about the world and how it works. 2- Is a card catalog (forgive me, I am old) a model of a library, or even of its collection? 3- Are the Dewey Decimal or the Library of Congress numbering systems, models of human knowledge? 4- Is it correct to say that Quantum Physics has a superlative model, but no theory? (The dictum to, "to shut up and compute" seems to support an affirmative answer to this question. 5- is a metaphor a model? For a short time, Model Driven Development garnered attention in software development: The idea was you could build a complete, accurate, and unambiguous model of a domain, then use a series of formal transforms (ala mathematics) to generate executable code. No one, outside of academia, believes this much anymore, but, in less drastic form, dominates all of software development and has nearly from the beginning, e.g., CASE and Rationale's 'round-trip-engineering'. I am writing about what might be called Theory-Driven Development and it is important that I be able to explain the difference between theory and model. Thanks for any thoughts any of you might have. davew -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoomhttps://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIChttp://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru presenthttps://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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