-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 tl;dr: The GNU project is not only development, it's also the philosophy that leads the FSF. Focusing on terminology helps get there, but is often used as a distraction from getting things done. Canadian SOftware Freedom conservancy ? Sure, but let's get the FSF Canada done first.
On 2012-01-29 09:07, Russell McOrmond wrote: > (New subject line referencing > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html I thought this was on > the FSF.org site, where it should have been. I suspect this is part of > the confusion between GNU and FSF. > http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/words-to-avoid.html redirects to the > GNU website...) What confusion ? Seems pretty clear to me on the GNU project site: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html > On 12-01-28 07:21 PM, Stephen Paul Weber wrote: >> People who hate DRM/TPM have in my hearing disparaged DFD because of >> ties to >> GNU. I am not saying this is rational, only that it has happened. > > I'm partly wanting to discuss this more as I want to ensure our (and > my own) advocacy work can avoid some of the misconceptions and pitfalls. > It is interesting, but I've heard these types of comments associated > with RMS, and through that the FSF as many see it is his project, but > not before the GNU project. > While I agreed with what he said (the actual wording), there were many > people uncomfortable with what RMS wrote when Steve Jobs died. I've had > associates tell me they didn't want to use the "Free Software" term any > more because they didn't want to be associated with the impression > portrayed by the media about what Richard said. By that logic we'd need to agree with everything on Stallman.org to advocate any use of free software. Whoever understands who RMS is, who Steve Jobs was and was willing to give up using free software because of personal comments on a personal site really are not our audience and we should not focus on them, at least not within the (possible) FSF Canada organization - and not even within a FLOSS advocacy group. In fact I can guarantee 99% of people using free, open source software don't even have any clue who RMS is. When I hear how "damaging" some of his opinion or actions can be I can't relate to any of that (having met him in person on several occasions), quite the opposite, so we need to start focusing on what is right and look forward: how can we inform more people and make using free software as common as being ethical ? I *love* such discussions, but they're mostly opinions. "It's a trap". The fact is any use of non-free software is an attack on user's freedoms. > When I'm talking to politicians [...] I avoid talking about "Fair Use" or > "Fair Dealings", as I personally > feel these are a distraction from the critical questions of who owns the > computer, who should hold the keys to any digital locks, and weather > owners should be protected in their right to make their own software > choices. I have found it unfortunate that everyone from Defective by > Design to Michael Geist have spent so much time discussing fair > use/dealings. Well, you're talking about software and they are talking about content restrictions enabled by software - different although related. I don't believe you can avoid each other and they are bound to discuss what they know best or focus on what they feel they're more effective at, so maybe you can find other ways to improve your approach. > My view that Free Software is the equivalent to software code as > access to information and related transparency/accountability policy is > to legal code has proven to be a distraction for many politicians. They > are not ready for the "code is law" level of the conversation. I cut a lot of fat when presenting this. To me it's all about ethics and that principle is really much older than the FSF, GNU, etc. I believe this mailing list is about that: finding the "level of converwsation" for Canadian audiences. > I have > found I can't always have that conversation with fellow members of the > FLOSS community, as many do not agree there are moral, ethical and other > issues with proprietary software: they see it as a developer choice > rather than a societal governance issue. The "FLOSS community" is vast. If you can't discuss with such people, focus on other matters. I have a feeling they will unsubscribe this list in the next few days or will never find it. When I meet such people I celebrate they becoming new FLOSS users - but don't force them to become advocates (other than by the example the can set). [...] > If I were given the choice, I would prefer creating a Canadian Free > Software Conservancy to creating a Canadian GNU project. I think we as > a community have matured to the point where having a legal/business > support umbrella for a wide variety of independent non-profit > incorporated software projects is better than having a single non-profit > that centrally manages everything. The GNU project started at a time > before the communications networks and distributed development tools we > take for granted today. > I am not sure what you refer to as a "Canadian GNU project", this thread (and list) is about a possible FSF Canada. The Software Freedom conservancy is aimed at developers and their projects ("...helps promote, improve, develop, and defend Free, Libre, and Open Source Software (FLOSS) projects."), which is important - but the FSF is also aimed at users and IT in general ("..to promote computer user freedom and to defend the rights of all free software users."). I think we're trying to establish if / how and FSF Canada can be. - -- Cheers, Fabian Rodriguez http://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:MagicFab -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk8lwnIACgkQfUcTXFrypNUF9gCg3uBY1I3cIgxHamXFUdPFxwWe t4EAoOgVb8eAIDU5FKGzK3k8DXnScE2u =B+m6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ fsfc-discuss mailing list [email protected] https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsfc-discuss
