At 15:45 04/11/2011, Ray wrote:
Keith, why do Europeans think that it is more in their interest for
Greece to align with China and the Union dissolve than to pull
together and be the most prosperous mega-country on the planet?
(KH) They don't. The main Eurozone countries want China to help the
Eurozone as a whole and don't want to see Greece leave it. But the
Chinese won't help until at least five of the Eurozone countries
(Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Italy) (and no doubt France as
well if the truth were known) carry out major budgetary and fiscal
reforms (or, better still, the Eurozone becomes a centralized fiscal
authority). It's only my suggestion that if Greece tears itself away
from the Eurozone (or, much less likely, is thrown out) that China
will help Greece then (because of the major Piraeus complex -- which
will be the shipping gateway to central and eastern Europe)).
(REH) I can understand American rednecks who are pampered and have
no understanding of the world beyond their little towns, but Europe
is different. It seems to me that it is in Europe's self-interest
and growth as a market for them to pull together while the opposite
represents decadence and devolution into provinciality. Or do the
Northern Europeans figure that they can ghettoize the Latins and
feed off the corpse and still have a Union?
(KH) The basic difference is that, because of a much harsher climate,
northern Europeans have always had to work very much harder than
Mediterranean Europeans. There's an immense cultural difference
between them (no doubt fully registered in their respective
epigenetic tags!). Why the European Union got started after WWII was
mainly due to French fear of Germany (financially and industrially as
well as militarily). This went to fever pitch when Communist East
Germany collapsed in 1990 and became reunited with West Germany.
French politicians went into overdrive to establish the Eurozone from
then on and managed to get it started before the end of that decade.
Germany went along with it because its top politicians genuinely
wanted to show that they had left the military dreams behind it and
could be good Europeans. But this doesn't change its epigenes!
Germans (and Finns, Swedes, Danes and the Flemish half of Belgium)
simply (that is, naturally) work far harder and are more disciplined
than Italians, Spanish and Greeks.
Keith
REH
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith Hudson
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 5:30 AM
To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, , EDUCATION
Subject: [Futurework] Grecian wonder
I can see no hope for Greece now. Even if Mr Papandreou manages to
form a Coalition government later today and get a vote of
confidence, I cannot see how the majority of Greek people are going
to accept many more years of even more austerity than they have
already suffered.
It's no use saying that the Eurozone has been pampering them for
many years and they must now buckle down and get used to reality.
When it comes to human emotions, there are no absolutes. It's all
relativity. As Krushchev once said when he'd retired from being the
President of Russia: "It's easy to govern starving peasants. But
once they have food in their bellies then it's another matter." Two
years ago, most Greeks had already gained as high a standard of life
as most Germans, French, Italians, etc. It's already declined, and
even this part-way step has produced a country that's barely governable.
Any more attempts at austerity, then daily riots and national
strikes every few weeks will produce a revolutionary situation. Or,
rather, not so much revolutionary (because there is no conceivable
alternative in sight) but total breakdown. At an intuitive level
that ordinary Greeks probably understand, even though they can't
articulate, they know they face a choice of more austerity for at
least 10 years in the Eurozone or yet even more austerity for a only
a couple of years or so if it, like Argentina in 2000, it decides
to default. In the latter case, it could leave the Eurozone, restore
the drachma, and regain the self-respect and cultural independence
which the bureaucrats of Brussels took away from them years ago.
I can see no other immediate future for Greece, even if it has to
have a draconian government -- maybe even with military backing --
for a few years. China will help. It is already building massive
port facilities at Piraeus and won't want to see these held up.
Furthermore, Greece could immediately start offering wonderful
holidays to tens of millions of the Chinese middle-class whom the
Chinese government is already encouraging to spend more. In four or
five years' time, if not before then, the average Greek will be
scratching his head in wonder that his country ever entered the
Eurozone in the first place.
Keith
Keith Hudson, Saltford, England
<http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/10/>http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/10/
Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/10/
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