I think this matter of, simply put, "working hard" is right on target, Keith.

And I would would then ask: are Americans willing to work hard to maintain an 
above-average life-style?

Cheers,
Lawry


On Nov 4, 2011, at 12:44 PM, Keith Hudson wrote:

> At 15:45 04/11/2011, Ray wrote:
>> Keith, why do Europeans think that it is more in their interest for Greece 
>> to align with China and the Union dissolve than to pull together and be the 
>> most prosperous mega-country on the planet?
> 
> (KH) They don't. The main Eurozone countries want China to help the Eurozone 
> as a whole and don't want to see Greece leave it. But the Chinese won't help 
> until at least five of the Eurozone countries (Greece, Spain, Portugal, 
> Ireland and Italy) (and no doubt France as well if the truth were known) 
> carry out major budgetary and fiscal reforms (or, better still, the Eurozone 
> becomes a centralized fiscal authority). It's only my suggestion that if 
> Greece tears itself away from the Eurozone (or, much less likely, is thrown 
> out) that China will help Greece then (because of the major Piraeus complex 
> -- which will be the shipping gateway to central and eastern Europe)).
> 
>> (REH) I can understand American rednecks who are pampered and have no 
>> understanding of the world beyond their little towns, but Europe is 
>> different.   It seems to me that it is in Europe’s self-interest and growth 
>> as a market for them to pull together while the opposite represents 
>> decadence and devolution into provinciality.   Or do the Northern Europeans 
>> figure that they can ghettoize the Latins and feed off the corpse and still 
>> have a Union?
> 
> (KH) The basic difference is that, because of a much harsher climate, 
> northern Europeans have always had to work very much harder than 
> Mediterranean Europeans. There's an immense cultural difference between them 
> (no doubt fully registered in their respective epigenetic tags!). Why the 
> European Union got started after WWII was mainly due to French fear of 
> Germany (financially and industrially as well as militarily). This went to 
> fever pitch when Communist East Germany collapsed in 1990 and became reunited 
> with West Germany. French politicians went into overdrive to establish the 
> Eurozone from then on and managed to get it started before the end of that 
> decade. Germany went along with it because its top politicians genuinely 
> wanted to show that they had left the military dreams behind it and could be 
> good Europeans. But this doesn't change its epigenes! Germans (and Finns, 
> Swedes, Danes and the Flemish half of Belgium) simply (that is, naturally) 
> work far harder and are more disciplined than Italians, Spanish and Greeks.
> 
> Keith
>    
> 
>>  
>> REH
>>  
>> From: [email protected] [ 
>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith Hudson
>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 5:30 AM
>> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, , EDUCATION
>> Subject: [Futurework] Grecian wonder
>>  
>> I can see no hope for Greece now. Even if Mr Papandreou manages to form a 
>> Coalition government later today and get a vote of confidence, I cannot see 
>> how  the majority of Greek people are going to accept many more years of 
>> even more austerity than they have already suffered.
>> 
>> It's no use saying that the Eurozone has been pampering them for many years 
>> and they must now buckle down and get used to reality. When it comes to 
>> human emotions, there are no absolutes. It's all relativity.  As Krushchev 
>> once said when he'd retired from being the President of Russia: "It's easy 
>> to govern starving peasants. But once they have food in their bellies then 
>> it's another matter." Two years ago, most Greeks had already gained as high 
>> a standard of life as most Germans, French, Italians, etc. It's already 
>> declined, and even this part-way step has produced a country that's barely 
>> governable.
>> 
>> Any more attempts at austerity, then daily riots and national strikes every 
>> few weeks will produce a revolutionary situation. Or, rather, not so much 
>> revolutionary (because there is no conceivable alternative in sight) but 
>> total breakdown. At an intuitive level that ordinary Greeks probably 
>> understand, even though they can't articulate, they know they face a choice 
>> of more austerity for at least 10 years in the Eurozone or yet even more 
>> austerity for a only a couple of years or so if it, like Argentina in 2000,  
>> it decides to default. In the latter case, it could leave the Eurozone, 
>> restore the drachma, and regain the self-respect and cultural independence 
>> which the bureaucrats of Brussels took away from them years ago.
>> 
>> I can see no other immediate future for Greece, even if it has to have a 
>> draconian government -- maybe even with military backing -- for a few years. 
>> China will help. It is already building massive port facilities at Piraeus 
>> and won't want to see these held up. Furthermore, Greece could immediately 
>> start offering wonderful holidays to tens of millions of the Chinese 
>> middle-class whom the Chinese government is already encouraging to spend 
>> more. In four or five years' time, if not before then, the average Greek 
>> will be scratching his head in wonder that his country ever entered the 
>> Eurozone in the first place.
>> 
>> Keith
>> 
>> 
>> Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/10/
>>  
> Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/10/
>  
> 
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