I think this matter of, simply put, "working hard" is right on target, Keith.
And I would would then ask: are Americans willing to work hard to maintain an above-average life-style? Cheers, Lawry On Nov 4, 2011, at 12:44 PM, Keith Hudson wrote: > At 15:45 04/11/2011, Ray wrote: >> Keith, why do Europeans think that it is more in their interest for Greece >> to align with China and the Union dissolve than to pull together and be the >> most prosperous mega-country on the planet? > > (KH) They don't. The main Eurozone countries want China to help the Eurozone > as a whole and don't want to see Greece leave it. But the Chinese won't help > until at least five of the Eurozone countries (Greece, Spain, Portugal, > Ireland and Italy) (and no doubt France as well if the truth were known) > carry out major budgetary and fiscal reforms (or, better still, the Eurozone > becomes a centralized fiscal authority). It's only my suggestion that if > Greece tears itself away from the Eurozone (or, much less likely, is thrown > out) that China will help Greece then (because of the major Piraeus complex > -- which will be the shipping gateway to central and eastern Europe)). > >> (REH) I can understand American rednecks who are pampered and have no >> understanding of the world beyond their little towns, but Europe is >> different. It seems to me that it is in Europe’s self-interest and growth >> as a market for them to pull together while the opposite represents >> decadence and devolution into provinciality. Or do the Northern Europeans >> figure that they can ghettoize the Latins and feed off the corpse and still >> have a Union? > > (KH) The basic difference is that, because of a much harsher climate, > northern Europeans have always had to work very much harder than > Mediterranean Europeans. There's an immense cultural difference between them > (no doubt fully registered in their respective epigenetic tags!). Why the > European Union got started after WWII was mainly due to French fear of > Germany (financially and industrially as well as militarily). This went to > fever pitch when Communist East Germany collapsed in 1990 and became reunited > with West Germany. French politicians went into overdrive to establish the > Eurozone from then on and managed to get it started before the end of that > decade. Germany went along with it because its top politicians genuinely > wanted to show that they had left the military dreams behind it and could be > good Europeans. But this doesn't change its epigenes! Germans (and Finns, > Swedes, Danes and the Flemish half of Belgium) simply (that is, naturally) > work far harder and are more disciplined than Italians, Spanish and Greeks. > > Keith > > >> >> REH >> >> From: [email protected] [ >> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith Hudson >> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 5:30 AM >> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, , EDUCATION >> Subject: [Futurework] Grecian wonder >> >> I can see no hope for Greece now. Even if Mr Papandreou manages to form a >> Coalition government later today and get a vote of confidence, I cannot see >> how the majority of Greek people are going to accept many more years of >> even more austerity than they have already suffered. >> >> It's no use saying that the Eurozone has been pampering them for many years >> and they must now buckle down and get used to reality. When it comes to >> human emotions, there are no absolutes. It's all relativity. As Krushchev >> once said when he'd retired from being the President of Russia: "It's easy >> to govern starving peasants. But once they have food in their bellies then >> it's another matter." Two years ago, most Greeks had already gained as high >> a standard of life as most Germans, French, Italians, etc. It's already >> declined, and even this part-way step has produced a country that's barely >> governable. >> >> Any more attempts at austerity, then daily riots and national strikes every >> few weeks will produce a revolutionary situation. Or, rather, not so much >> revolutionary (because there is no conceivable alternative in sight) but >> total breakdown. At an intuitive level that ordinary Greeks probably >> understand, even though they can't articulate, they know they face a choice >> of more austerity for at least 10 years in the Eurozone or yet even more >> austerity for a only a couple of years or so if it, like Argentina in 2000, >> it decides to default. In the latter case, it could leave the Eurozone, >> restore the drachma, and regain the self-respect and cultural independence >> which the bureaucrats of Brussels took away from them years ago. >> >> I can see no other immediate future for Greece, even if it has to have a >> draconian government -- maybe even with military backing -- for a few years. >> China will help. It is already building massive port facilities at Piraeus >> and won't want to see these held up. Furthermore, Greece could immediately >> start offering wonderful holidays to tens of millions of the Chinese >> middle-class whom the Chinese government is already encouraging to spend >> more. In four or five years' time, if not before then, the average Greek >> will be scratching his head in wonder that his country ever entered the >> Eurozone in the first place. >> >> Keith >> >> >> Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/10/ >> > Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/10/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
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