----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:29 AM Subject: [Futurework] Future plans
Keith wrote: I am also completely, thoroughly and utterly tired of constantly seeing > postings about his ancestors or his emotive ravings about the particular > sort of music he likes. Selma: Just for the record, I would like to state that Ray's discussion of his ancestors has been, for me, enlightening and profoundly insightful. There appears to be some agreement among some on this list ( you can see that I am choosing my words carefully) that Western society (and all those societies presently becoming 'Westernized' or Americanized' ) are terribly deficient in a spiritual base of some sort; that a center of morality and humanity just doesn't seem to be there and some will argue, like me, that this is at the base of most if not all of our problems. Ray's discussion of his ancestors is never just for the sake of discussing his ancestors. It is always in a larger context of trying to reason out what we can learn from culture(s) that do have a spiritual base and a moral center and to compare the behavior in those cultures as it contrasts with our own. As for Ray's 'emotive ravings about the particular sort of music he likes'- those discussions also are never for the reason of letting us know what he likes or trying to persuade us to like what he likes- they are also, always, in a context of trying to illustrate some larger principle that is important for us to look at if we are to have some important understandings of what is wrong-and perhaps, even, what may be right with our own culture. It seems to me to be terribly pathetic and illustrative of precisely that lack of moral and spiritual understanding I speak of above, that Ray's discussions of aesthetics as being basic to human and social development can be dismissed as 'emotive ravings about a particular sort of music he likes'. Keith: He is patronising and intimidatory, and I believe > that many other intelligent and thoughtful people would be subscribers to > Futurework and could be writing here for all our benefit were it not for > his long and rambling postings which are often impossible to understand > unless you give each paragraph a great deal of study. Selma: I find Ray anything but patronizing and intimidatory. He has demonstrated a kind of patience and understanding that I can only admire. I fully understand his frustration at having to deal with the kind of responses he receives. I have chosen to refuse to invest my time and energy as he does in an attempt to contribute to a conversation that he keeps hoping will lead to some important insights and understandings of human and social behavior. I am somewhat older than Ray and perhaps my experience as a woman makes me a little more aware of the kinds of conversations in which many participants are more interested in proving they are right than in coming to any real understanding of anything. There is a considerable literature that testifies to this as being more a male characteristic than a female characteristic. I have learned to conserve my energy and choose my fights as a result. I have to admit that I sometimes have pangs of guilt that I am not trying to give Ray a helping hand as he battles here. But it has seemed to me to be hopeless. However, I read his posts avidly; I have no trouble understanding what he is talking about; I have learned a great deal and understood so much more than I did before I was lucky enough to encounter him on this list. Many of the things he says are insights that just feel so true and right. If I ever write that definitive book of social theory I will owe him an enormous debt for clarifying so much that should have been obvious but wasn't until he expressed it as only he can. Selma _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
