Apparently, Bill, you and I read Ray differently. Selma
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] Future plans > Selma, > > Your letter is well written and points are well made. > My guess, however, is that Ray may feel a bit under- > appreciated in your denying that his is "intimidatory" > > Bill > > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:46:42 -0400 "Selma Singer" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:29 AM > > Subject: [Futurework] Future plans > > > > > > Keith wrote: > > > > I am also completely, thoroughly and utterly tired of constantly > > seeing > > > postings about his ancestors or his emotive ravings about the > > particular > > > sort of music he likes. > > > > Selma: > > > > Just for the record, I would like to state that Ray's discussion of > > his > > ancestors has been, for me, enlightening and profoundly insightful. > > > > There appears to be some agreement among some on this list ( you can > > see > > that I am choosing my words carefully) that Western society (and all > > those > > societies presently becoming 'Westernized' or Americanized' ) are > > terribly > > deficient in a spiritual base of some sort; that a center of > > morality and > > humanity just doesn't seem to be there and some will argue, like me, > > that > > this is at the base of most if not all of our problems. > > > > Ray's discussion of his ancestors is never just for the sake of > > discussing > > his ancestors. It is always in a larger context of trying to reason > > out what > > we can learn from culture(s) that do have a spiritual base and a > > moral > > center and to compare the behavior in those cultures > > as it contrasts with our own. > > > > As for Ray's 'emotive ravings about the particular sort of music he > > likes'- > > those discussions also are never for the reason of letting us know > > what he > > likes or trying to persuade us to like what he likes- they are also, > > always, > > in a context of trying to illustrate some larger principle that is > > important > > for us to look at if we are to have some important understandings of > > what is > > wrong-and perhaps, even, what may be right with our own culture. > > > > It seems to me to be terribly pathetic and illustrative of precisely > > that > > lack of moral and spiritual understanding I speak of above, that > > Ray's > > discussions of aesthetics as being basic to human and social > > development can > > be dismissed as 'emotive ravings about a particular sort of music he > > likes'. > > > > > > Keith: > > > > He is patronising and intimidatory, and I believe > > > that many other intelligent and thoughtful people would be > > subscribers to > > > Futurework and could be writing here for all our benefit were it > > not for > > > his long and rambling postings which are often impossible to > > understand > > > unless you give each paragraph a great deal of study. > > > > Selma: > > > > I find Ray anything but patronizing and intimidatory. He has > > demonstrated a > > kind of patience and understanding that I can only admire. I fully > > understand his frustration at having to deal with the kind of > > responses he > > receives. > > > > I have chosen to refuse to invest my time and energy as he does in > > an > > attempt to contribute to a conversation that he keeps hoping will > > lead to > > some important insights and understandings of human and social > > behavior. I > > am somewhat older than Ray and perhaps my experience as a woman > > makes me a > > little more aware of the kinds of conversations in which many > > participants > > are more interested in proving they are right than in coming to any > > real > > understanding of anything. There is a considerable literature that > > testifies > > to this as being more a male characteristic than a female > > characteristic. I > > have learned to conserve my energy and choose my fights as a result. > > I have > > to admit that I sometimes have pangs of guilt that I am not trying > > to give > > Ray a helping hand as he battles here. But it has seemed to me to > > be > > hopeless. > > > > However, I read his posts avidly; I have no trouble understanding > > what he is > > talking about; I have learned a great deal and understood so much > > more than > > I did before I was lucky enough to encounter him on this list. Many > > of the > > things he says are insights that just feel so true and right. If I > > ever > > write that definitive book of social theory I will owe him an > > enormous debt > > for clarifying so much that should have been obvious but wasn't > > until he > > expressed it as only he can. > > > > Selma > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
