Karen, Some interesting remarks below on Harry's part. His e-mail to me on July 8th, however, would rather contradict what he's stating here, in approach and content. Perhaps this is not unusual for him.
By the way, that was a smashing compliment he paid you about emulating both Darryl and I. Hope you called the Prozac police on him, nonetheless. My ***'s preceded my responses copied below to Harry's words... Alas, I too was a victim of Harry's personal mailer demon, and the full response was probably only seen by the rest of you. No big. Keep up the fine work, Karen. Word is getting out, and though it can seem insurmountable to many, and your intent can be disrupted and distorted, there is a decided indignation, fears that are converting to questions, and from there important steps can be negotiated. I'm not suggesting that all will be healed, but truth is trickling out, and that is encouragement. It also serves the conscience and humanity to at least try. Natalia ---- Original Message ----- From: Harry Pollard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Karen Watters Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Harry Pollard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Darryl and Natalia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Selma Singer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 12:03 PM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Fw: Bigger Than Watergate! > Karen, > > Don't shoot the messenger. I told it like it is. > > You said: > > KAREN: "Just because it exists does not mean we should accept > poverty. Just because > racism still exists does not mean we should be complacent about it." > > Henry George made a great speech on "The Crime of Poverty". I think it is a > crime too, and never something to be accepted. > > The trouble with politicians and their cohorts is they have accepted it. So > their attention is directed to making poverty a little more bearable (it > doesn't work well). So I suggest you learn about the "crime" and > concentrate on ending it rather than alleviating it. > > But that's radical thinking - not suitable for Democratic or Republican > election headquarters. > > How can one be complacent about racism? How can one somehow, not notice the > millions who have recently died in Africa because of racism? How can one be > complacent about it? > NATALIA: "Indonesian and Asian workers, including children, who work for > Nike earn 40 pence for every L100 sold of product. Some locations in those > countries get as little as 72 pence a day, shifts 24 hours or longer, to > work Nike, Adidas, Puma, Reebok, and live in disease-infested slums for the > privilege. In N. India, children hand stitch Mitre footballs for 14 pence > per ball." > > HARRY: Why do they accept such terrible conditions All they need do is say > "A pox on you" and work for better wages elsewhere. Don't understand your > point. > ***An example of oppression, Harry. There is no recourse in order to survive, feed the family. Capitalism invests the least possible to reap the highest rewards. Slavery has not been eradicated, it's just been redistributed and disguised. Far more economical to keep the slaves where they cost the least to employ. > NATALIA: "The wars and ensuing oppression > resulting from this sector has and will continue to cause intense > world fear, cause countless deaths and continuing deformities, > ruin entire nations' economies and cultures, will leave behind > millions of land mines, will exercise use of depleted uranium > on civilians, bio/chem and atomic weapons will be used, and > this is all corporate stuff, not a matter of defence! It affects > the world adversely to the tune of 100%." > > HARRY: Terrible, terrible! What wars are these? ***Harry, does it hurt too much? Is this where you must resort to common callousness to negate the reality of the price of the comforts you so enjoy? > > But, back to business You don't just climb a mountain. You examine it first > and get to know the lay of the land. Where are the best routes to the top? > What's the easiest at this time of year? Where are the dangers? > > In politics, the same is true. So, in my post I set out some of the > problems that must be faced before climbing begins. > > Apparently we know what politicians can get up to with electronic voting > machines - so, I would think we can stop it. If it can't be stopped, then > they shouldn't be used. > > I must say smaller voting areas and pieces of paper looks far better to me. > > You said: > > KAREN: "By declaring all elections and politicians as crooked and/or > self-serving, > you encourage apathy and cynicism. This produces sheepish behavior in > people (sheeple) who are then too timid or afraid to question, speak up and > challenge - three things a healthy democracy cannot afford." > > HARRY: Honey, for heaven's sake don't emulate Darryl and Natalia. You seem > to be saying that people are not to be trusted with the truth. We must make > them think they are doing something worthwhile, or they won't do it. > Apparently you wish to make them sheeple. > > If we hide unsettling facts from them, you believe they will be encouraged > "to question, speak up and challenge". Question, speak up and challenge > what? Things they don't know about? > > Would your interest be so high if the Democrats were the alleged electronic > culprits. If such a thing surfaced, would you put it down to a Republican > plot? This is a perennial problem with political advocates. Everything > comes to them through a blue or red filter. > > If you want to do something about the system, you could scarcely do better > than join the proportional representation group. Unfortunately, this would > be opposed by most politicians, for they don't want: > > all votes to be worth the same value; > > effective pressure on them to keep their promises; > > voters enabled to choose between candidates of their own party; > > minority group candidates to be elected; > > unpopular opinions to get a voice. > > Join them and help. The best method is the Single Transferable Vote. > > I personally like the method suggested to me by some Danish Georgists > several decades ago. > > Let's say 100,000 votes gives you a vote in Congress. > > There are no elections - or rather, elections are continuous. > > Electors can transfer their votes at any time by going to the post office > and making the change. > > If he gets 200,000 votes - he gets two votes in congress. Perhaps the most > votes that are allowed to count are 500,000 and five votes. If the > representative doesn't do what he has promised, his vote support could > begin to melt away. Below 100,000 and he is out of Congress. > > This means that a legislator answers immediately to his constituency, > something rather nice. > > However, it isn't likely to happen. Proportional representation, on the > other hand, is definitely something that is possible. It's made some gains > in the US - I think that San Francisco may be considering a form of it. > > Anyway, that's the way you start finding ways up the mountain. And, believe > me, Karen, the forces of good could do with someone like you to help them > scale the heights. > > But, if you insist the mountain doesn't exist, you'll never get to the top. > > Harry > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Karen wrote: > > >Harry, if even a third of this story is true, then why should they pay for > >people to vote when someone can make the switch, invalidate the date and or > >time, and walk off with a memory card with hundreds if not thousands of > >votes on it, never to be counted? Or just program the machines to fail so > >that there is confusion and incorrect voter registration data? Aren't you > >just a teeny bit curious? > > > >By declaring all elections and politicians as crooked and/or self-serving, > >you encourage apathy and cynicism. This produces sheepish behavior in > >people (sheeple) who are then too timid or afraid to question, speak up and > >challenge - three things a healthy democracy cannot afford. > > > >Just because it exists does not mean we should accept poverty. Just because > >racism still exists does not mean we should be complacent about it. Just > >because votes can be bought the old-fashioned way does not mean that we > >should turn a blind eye and ear to newfound ways of rigging elections. > > > >As an old rabble-rouser, Harry, I'm surprised you aren't out there > >agitating, asking barbed questions in someone's face and generally asking > >people to at least think for themselves. - KWC > >Karen, > > > >The fact that we have a larger population does not prevent us having > >smaller polling stations - something very much to be desired. > > > >The major problem with American elections is that most of the House > >contests don't matter. Both parties have so gerrymandered the districts > >that one has to be a paedophiles or something to lose as an incumbent. So > >the House election boils down to a couple of handfuls of seats. > > > >Also, elections are overwhelmingly won by the candidate with the most money. > > > >So to be an incumbent House member, with its corollary of lots of money > >means a job for life - which is why term limits frightens them so much. If > >you keep your nose clean and toe the line - be a team player - you'll get > >help with your re-election and be provided with many other perks from a > >first-class health service - probably the best in the US - to lucrative > >pensions that can be added to your lobbying job commissions when you leave. > > > >Your vote is valuable and can be sold (surprisingly cheaply). > > > >There's the problem. Voting machines and suchlike are unimportant when > >compared with a system that from Cook County to Florida is manifestly > >flawed. > > > >Harry > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >Karen wrote: > > > > >The point should be to distribute this kind of provocative information as > > >widely as possible, look for any publication elsewhere, generate letters to > > >the editor and Congress. If the people who do these things believe that no > > >one is paying attention, as all the voters should be in a democracy, then > > >they can continue to operate with confidence; if the system is rigged, why > > >bother concealing your contempt for the little guy, the minority voter, the > > >independents? > > > > > >If the system is rigged, why hide the arrogance of your policy's intent to > > >permanently institute a class society based on wealth, making education > >more > > >difficult for all but a few of the lower classes? Note that there will be > > >ballot challenges to affirmative action by diehard activists who are angry > > >with the Supreme Court and also Pres. Bush for signing it (especially since > > >he seemed to endorse the opposite opinion previously). > > > > > >If the system is rigged, do you really have to be concerned about > > >consequences of policy on political campaigns? Not really. You simply > > >remove those individuals who will receive too much negative attention > >during > > >the political season, or who have "baggage" that might not survive a > > >congressional hearing, or whose loyalty is not established. Hence, Whitman > > >is gone, so is Ari Fleischer. > > > > > >There has always been some form of election fraud. Personally, I like the > > >way the Canadians do it, with small polling stations so that paper ballots > > >can be tabulated and checked quickly. But we have a much larger > >population. > > >But until people are aware of the potential for abuse, and motivated to > > >safeguard their right to a free and untainted election, we should not be > > >silent or complacent, even when sometimes the evidence is alarming, > > >provocative or hard to procure. - KWC > > > **************************************************** > Harry Pollard > Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles > Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 > Tel: (818) 352-4141 -- Fax: (818) 353-2242 > http://home.comcast.net/~haledward > **************************************************** > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.493 / Virus Database: 292 - Release Date: 6/25/2003 > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
