John, The part of Mass Effect that is playable is really a minigame, and it's mass effect 2. Now, I'll be the first to admit that most of mass effect is unplayable by us, but this one part, this one minigame, is entirely playable. In fact, I'd love to see a game made that is basically an expansion on this minigame. It could be done. The minigame in question involves scanning a planet for resources. When you come to a planet, you use probes to mine resources from the planet automatically. What you do is move your scanner across its surface. It wraps around, so I did overlap a little bit of my original starting point, but I scanned planets, judged the type of resource, each resource made a different sound, and amount present, the sound was at a higher pitch the more resources were available, and cover the entire planet, almost as well as any sighted person could have done. It's not a huge part of the game, nor is it an important story element, but if you look at a game that is meant for mainstream sighted players and you realize that there is a part of the game where you have almost as much info as they do, it's amazing. The only thing I couldn't get a read on was how many probes I had left, and of course I couldn't go buy more, but those are rather small elements when compared to the fact that I was entirely able to play even that small of an aspect of a major, big company, millions of dollars game.
Dark, You and I are on the same court. We're playing the same ballgame, but we're playing different positions, both important. I look at audiogames as a genre. You do as well, but you look at it from a different point of view. I try to move the accessible toward the mainstream, you try to move the mainstream toward the accessible. I think that we can both get a lot of things accomplished, if we have the right tools and resources, but I'll be honest. I wish there were more people playing ball like I do. I think that Jeremy is playing it that way, making everyone use the mouse for Swamp, not allowing a keyboard alternative. He's making the accessible stuff more mainstream. My goal is to show people what they've already done, how they can improve, and how much we don't need to change. Your goal is to show them what we do need to change, how those changes have been done, and how they could be done. Both are useful. Keep that in mind. As for conferences, I really want to go to them. I want some official support in this. I'd love to go to Bioware and tell them that this little part of Mass Effect 2 was accessible. Hey. It changed my playing experience of the game. I was able to take the controls for myself and do something with complete confidence. And at the same time, there's a certain poignancy to being so excited about a rather small minigame. I know I'm not the only one who would love to sit and play that game for a while, scanning planets, gathering resources. I bet we'd all love to give it a go, and what does that say to them? This community is so interested in gaming, so excited about it, that they take one of our side quests and get really excited about it. How much more excited would they be if we put in two or three accessible side quests? Then, ... and then, they keep moving, slowly but surely in that direction. One little thank you, one little baby step, one little suggestion at a time. We're not working at cross purposes in this one, just from a different angle. That's what I want to do. That's why I want to get organized. If I only knew how, I'd already have everything set up. I'd already have a showcase of what we have done, what we can do. I just don't know how, so I'm learning, so I'm trying to influence what's already there. I don't want to ruin Audiogames.net. I don't want to stop giving credit to developers who put time and effort into making their games accessible to us, but accessibilitygames.net isn't what I'm trying to get going. I'm trying to push for integration, not separation or conciliation. I want people to see us in a different light. Not the community that's just a bit weird, just a bit different, always demanding change, always demanding ... whatever we demand. I want them to see us as willing to work toward that change, to be grateful for what has been done. We have a hard time with that, and it shows. As I said, I think we can do a lot, both of us, with both of our different perspectives. And I do think that there is room for both perspectives. However, I will ask a question. Which is easier to understand: rigid classification of games such as videogames, audiogames, text games, etc. or a lumpy genre including some of all of these? I'm not trying to rub anything into anyone's face, just to ask a question of practicality of a philosopher...and having a friend who just earned a degree in the philosophy program, I know how hard that can be to do. Is it better to have rigidly defined examples, get more done, give people a quick and dirty showcase when they show up to the site, and allow them to explore and learn more, or to overwhelm them with a free and open list of games that, on the surface, don't appear to have much to do with audiogaming as an interface setup or as a genre? Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 4/20/13, dark <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Decota. > > I'm afraid I simply do not agree that your catagorizations of what is or is > > not an audio game are so easy as you suggest, indeed one thing that > studdying philosophy has taught me is that rigid classifications are a sure > > fire way to desaster. > > Take the BG games for instance. They have a fully graphical interface, so by > > your deffinition they are vvideo games, yet they also contain audio for > important game events and output to sapi. so what are they? I'm afraid your > > calling what I say "Bs" does not change the point at hand. > > Likewise, you talk about "accessible parts in an inaccessible game" well > what is accessible? I have spent the last five years writing on that > question and the ultimate answer I came with is that found in the database > guidelines, namely, equal effort. As I said, you could! freely claime that > original super mario brothers is accessible. There are sounds of jumps, > walking, hitting monsters etc which nintendo inserted into the game, and it > > is undeniable that some blind people have learnt by timing to play through > levels on original Super Mario brothers. This however is not! due to > anything on the half of nintendo, rather it is simply because some people > have what is super human patience, and I would not see mainstream companies > > get the credit for doing nothing when in effect the credit belongs to those > > individuals who do! exert massive amounts of effort to play games, despite > missing %80 of the games' information. > > You also seem to have a slightly off idea of actually how! efforts to > contact mainstream companies work. Since it is practically impossible to > contact the developement section of Capcom, intendo etc (believe me, I've > tried), the contact needs to be more formal, thus such conversations are > not! done by E-mail, but by direct consultation at various conferences, or > through press and the media such as the reporter who recently gained > information on access to games. > > I have done some of this sort of work myself, and Richard and Sander > webmasters of audiogames.net do far more, since ultimately big coorporations > > are not going to listen to any individual, but may! listen to formal groups > > such as the game accessibility special interest group. > > i do take the point that times have changed, however to me, this is even > more! a chance to include and contact indi developers, since the Iphone and > > other systems are where such developements happen and it's by the indi > developers that I personally believe we'll see changes in the future, and > this is also why I'm adamant that all those indi devs who have! made changes > > to their games, whatever those changes be get the credit and recognition > they deserve from the community. > > while I do take your point about game audio, to me that is not something > which should be done by altering the community and the site attached to it, > > but by going out! into the mainstream indi game community and > participating. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [email protected]. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to [email protected]. > --- Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected]. 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