well its not like we have the choice mate.
However its why when anyone tries to get a computer I always say avoid package 
deals like the plague.
I also think one should not pay for security.
spybot sd avg, and spywareblaster are all the average jo needs, maybe if you 
are paranoid zone alarm, and a well adjusted router or other firewall.
I also no longer will go for mother bumpkin's security.
In other words the best aint always the best.
saying that if nod32 was not so expensive like 60 for each system I'd get the 
smart security package.
Even though I don't go for packaged stuff in general if I can get software 
packages with stuff I want for one lump price I am more likely to go with it 
rather than single software titles.
On the subject of jaws, and other readers, I wouldn't buy it myself.
if I needed something then I'd apply to a work agency or training org or 
something like that if I needed it for a spaciffic purpose.
I wouldn't just grab it just because.
In this reguard though unless you need to upgrade things all the time ie you 
are working then its no big issue.
Compared to say a mac costing 1200 the pc can be got for about 600 and a laptop 
with base settings can be got for 1000 bucks.
As supposed to what it used to cost.
And as long as you could have a tech to load the packages for you then fine.
I don't aggree with the fact that you should have all the limits on licences 
for updates, etc which is why I use avg.
Now going back to your message if you want to find avg at a shop then you are 
probably out of luck.
There are  security updates for all oses, saying systems are more secure is a 
myth, no os is fully secure.
while its true macs get less updates than windows they do.
There are viruses that can effect macs and linux to.
Also right now I aggree with you in principal but all things right now are 
geared to windows, all or most things run on windows.
If you get something its in windows.
If you just want linux then live in india!
This is not being racest or anything, in india linux is the main os aparently 
says one of my friends.
I know what you mean though.
I manage several machines.
3 at home, a laptop, and 2 desktops  here and one system that is remotely 
managed.
Ie I have to either go to it or have it brought here.
So its not like I could rely on payed for software.
On that note not all is lost.
Its possible without cracking, pirating, etc to have a reasonable pc existance.
though you still will have to get windows ofcause ms is starting to use the 
open xml format and also odf support is in the latest office service pack.
Some places have started using openoffice.
Linux while still a programmer's and server admin's system is getting more 
usable, not as usable as its windows counterpart but its getting better.
I should also mention the down side to going totally opensource however.
There is no official tech support.
I know that I pay for my stuff and or its got for me, reguardless I know that I 
will get some free or all free support, I have payed for said software and 
therefore the company needs to or rather has to previde support, free or 
otherwise and service.
In opensource if something really goes then you are on your own.
On that note when or if you buy a package who says you need to use their stuff.
When ever I get a packaged system, ie a laptop or something, I always reformat.
even if it works, I reformat.
I then don't install or remove is recovery cds use it all stuff I don't need or 
want.
issue solved.
ie my laptop came with norton security 2006 I did not install it I did not use 
it!
And it came with other config things.
I got rid of everything I didn't want and thats all.
True I'd have liked to not have those at all but beggers can't be choosers.
On that note you can always try to bargin, ie ask them what all the stuff came 
with.
You could ask if you could just not get all the stuff you didn't want or if you 
could substatute stuff with other stuff.
or if you could just remove that stuff and get a cheaper price.
They can always say no but mostly they actually will respect what the consumer 
wants.
There however are places for package deals.
ie, the novis user that has no idea should get a package deal.
I encourage the first system anyone gets unless he knows what he wants to be a 
package deal.
as you get used to the net you can customise things.
all systems up till the stuff we got in 2001 were package deals.
in 2003 we got our first customised system and in 2008 last year we got our 
second.
next year I plan to upgrade the other 2003 system with another customised 
system.
its taken me the last few years from  1997 till now to find out what config I 
like, the level of security I want and the fact I don't want to change my 
config every 2 seconds and that it works well for me.
My security config may be a bit on the low side but I have stuff that even at 
full level if I choose to use it I won't have to touch or anything.
all updates are free, or almost so, and there is no upkeep yearly subscription 
expiry costs.
Point is at least in nz if you  need to work chances are you can get the stuff 
funded.
if not then an old system released around year 2001-03 will work for you.
I hope that does answer your concerns.
I expect this trend is fluidic though things change so don't be supprised if 
this changes a second later, life cycles and such.
At 01:16 a.m. 19/09/2009, you wrote:
>Hi thomas,
>
>Is it possible that there is some kind of conspiracy goingon with copyright 
>laws that gives companies godLike control over their so-called intellectual 
>property? I went to hp's site the other day and read about their computers. It 
>says they got windows genuine advantage, norton security norton anti-virus, 
>antispyware all this stuff on them. Sure the computers gotta have fast 
>processors, because you're using a lot of that power to make up for the 
>slowing-down that antivirus and other such software does. When will the 
>average consumer learn that Mac and Linux are more secure? And also google 
>Chrome OS running on Linux rumored to be being created for release sometime 
>next year? When will the consumer get tired of the krap, the $1200 for Jaws 
>and Window-eyes and say, I've had it? As soon as I can I'm getting a MacBook 
>putting windows xp on it and will only use windows for games that's really 
>about it. Otherwise I'll use the Mac OS. You know after a fresh install of 
>windows xp things 
load lots faster? then put your antivirus and antispyware and securitty 
software on there and things run half or less than half as fast because 
everything's being scanned. But if you remove the security software you risk a 
total breakdown. When will the consumers learn macs and Linux are better? I'm 
not talking about whether one chooses the command line or the gui that's notthe 
issue. The issue is the OS viruses and security. If we wouldn't have to worry 
about that games would...
>run faster
>load faster
>not crash with errors or if they did hardly ever if at all.
>
>I agree that programmers gotta make money. But in my opinion putting such 
>tight restrictions and making such tight tight tight copyright laws actually 
>stifles an artists creativity. That's what you game programmers are part 
>artist, computer scientist, and programmer writing commands to tell the 
>computer what to do. And your creativity as an artist is being stifled by very 
>restrictive copyright laws and its sighted people too. when will the consumers 
>get a clue, wake up, and say I've had it! I'm not putting up with thiss 
>anymore! Some arre doing it, but very few, serotek and mozilla and Ubuntu. Why 
>so many choices with screen readers? because they don't all do the same thing. 
>Now what if ms built a powerful screen reader rightinto windows itself? A 
>screen reader that combined the strengths of all our current windows screen 
>readers and our favorite voices? We need accessibility built-in, not as an 
>afterthought and bolted on-top. 
>
>Josh
>
>download Klango, its free at www.klango.net
>download Vinux at www.vinux.org.uk
>my twitter is: www.twitter.com/jkenn337
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