Hii Greg and list.
Greg, I agree with you about induction generators for gird tie. In
fact, there's a really good article out there that strongly supports
your view.
It is at:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3726/is_200010/ai_n8909370/
It is called "Induction Generators, What Can Go Wrong". This article
debunks every known problem with such a system.
Unfortunately, my utility company won't allow it. I have spent
several hours with them, but they won't budge on the issue. They muat
have UL approved equipment.
I have found an inverter type system the handles up to 80KW, but that
one, similar to what Doug Williams said, gores for $80,000US.
As you know, Greg, I live in west central Wisconsin. I have a friend
in north central Minnesota and in his area they do allow such an
induction generator connection.
One of the induction motor issues to be solved, however, is that
single phase induction motors are seldom found in sizes bigger than
about 10hp. So, if you need to output 50 or 60 KW (which is what I
want to do), you get yourself an appropriately sized 3 phase motor and
have it rewound (they call it "zig-zag winding") for single phase, for
that application. The friend uses a local motor shop to do this. I
think he said that it costs about $3500 US to get YOUR motor rewound
this way.
By the way, if you want to experiment with induction motors there are
lots of youtube videos on the subject. Another interesting aspect is
the use of 3 phase induction motors to produce single phase power. I
have built a small test setup doing just that, using an old 12hp B&S
engine and 5hp 9 wire 3 phase motor. In my setup, I run the Briggs at
about 2200 rpms (slow enough for wood gas) to get 60hz out of the
generator. I can get about 2kw easily (on gasoline), but this is
without much regulation, so that's about all I can produce between 129
and 105 volts., full to no load.
This power generation system is called a "C-2C" system because you use
a certain amount of phase shifting Capacitance, "C", in one phase, and
then 2 X "C" in the second phase., taking the power off the third
phase. They usually run these things in delta, but I am using a Wye
connection so I can get both 120volts and 208. There's a book written
about all of this. If anyone is interested, I can dig up the
particulars. This system is often used in third world countries to take
power from "run of the river" turbines.
Sorry for the off-topic post.
There's a so-so picture of my setup at:
http://www.spaco.org/Woodgas/WoodgasToElectric8172010.htm
It's the white engine in the second picture.
Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------------
Greg Manning wrote:
Hi Pete, Doug, and list.
Electricity Generation:
Here in Manitoba, where Electricity is the cheapest in North America (0.06
kwh) it IS still feasible, the key to this is using 2 engine/generators. Two
you say....
Let me explain, the interconnect equipment is the cost, the generators are
cheap in comparison, one way to get around the high price of synchronous
generation (the type of generator that produces simply by spinning it's
shaft), is to use an "induction generator" when connected to the grid, and
THEN, if the power fails use the synchronous generator as a stand alone,
until grid power resumes.
Induction generators ONLY make electricity IF the GRID is working, once the
grid goes down, the generator simply spins, and no output; However, they are
really easy and cheap to interconnect because of the non-need for
synchronizing.
On the other hand, Synchronous generation required VERY costly interface
equipment, BUT as a "stand-alone" they generate when no other electricity is
present.
kindest regards,
Greg Manning,
Canadian Gasifier Ltd.
Building Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since 2001
Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
1 (204) 726-1851
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of
doug.williams
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 3:29 AM
To: Pete&Sheri; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification facilitates Biochar
Hi Pete,
You ask:
How much power are you feeding into the grid?
The Tecogen puts out 60 kwe on LPG, and from memory, I calculated we would
get around 47 kWe on producer gas. As my job is to supervise the producer
gas interfacing, (I'm still in NZ) next week, I can be more specific in my
next report in December.
> If its more than 5 or
10 KW, please tell me about your grid connecting controller: cost,
mfr, etc..
All this stuff is built into the Tecogen CHP system, not clobbered up with
off shelf componentry. These package plants are fully certified to meet
Californian regulations, and came with a hefty price tag in the region of
$80,000. I do know that there would have been some big charges from the
power company to supply relay code settings if we had not had them fitted
into the Tecogen.
The economics of doing this power generation module are certainly outside of
commercial realities, but my associates are looking for answers to
questions, and prepared to pay for the experience. As the second objective
of this particular project is to replace LPG as a heating source for glass
houses, the gas has greater commercial value than for electrical generation,
but we still have to meet all the emission regulations for it's combustion.
Because the issues of grid connections can only be discussed in general
terms, my opinion for what it is worth (nothing) , tells me that DIY gensets
and grid relay connectors, will not be approved by most line companies,
unless they can be certified appropriately, hardly economic for a few kWe.
If that's all you can offer, then you are best suited to either use
gasifiers for stand-by, or use all the power yourself on site.
Doug Williams,
Fluidyne Gasification.
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