<< Jon, not to criticize, but it seems that you really want to make a
definitive statement here.>>
Sorry for the confusion here. I thought that the meat of my statement was
pretty clear " The short answer is, like David Lawrence said " there are
problems inherent with inbreeding (ALMOST) anything!! It should be avoided
whenever possible." Which was quite similar in meaning in the last
sentence of what you previously had replied to the list, below:
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Neil Groginsky [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 9:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Gecko] pictus inbreeding
I find this question pretty interesting. I know with fish this is not so
much of a problem, and in fact breeding a mother with an offspring is used
to promote a certain feature. I think, however, that long-term inbreeding
without bringing in new blood would probably result in birth defects.>>>
I'm not sure what your points of disagreement are, other than somewhere you
might have perceived a definitive statement, when in fact I had admitted
quite clearly that certain species of geckos had been inbred without any
visible ill-effects. I myself have been left with no other alternative but
to inbreed certain species, as there were no further specimens in the
country to be acquired. (By the way, if anyone among us has any surplus
Pristurus sokotranus please contact me off list) But when conditions allow
us the opportunity to acquire unrelated offspring, then it might well be a
good idea. No mystery about that.
None of us here are geneticists, nor pretend to be. Among us are many
interesting people from different walks of life. One thing common to all
of us is the interest and welfare of geckos in general. Inbreeding in a
controlled environment, such as captivity, only invites possible problems
which nature itself provides some safe-guards against (ex. territory,
intraspecific pressures to move or colonize other nearby territories when
the territory is held by a higher ranking individual, etc.). Why entertain
ideas that there is nothing wrong with starting with a pair of siblings,
and breeding them together for 20 - ? generations? It may have to be done,
but when provided with alternatives? It has been my experience within a
few generations of inbreeding (again, Yes I've done it, cause nobody else
had any specimens to lend for genetic help) that associated problems
consist of the following: lower number of clutches yielded, infertility,
birth defects, shorter life spans, decreased livelihood, decrease in infant
survival, and other issues. I am the first to admit that husbandry issues,
such as diet, may play an important role. But, nevertheless, with similar,
related species, when I've interjected unrelated specimens into my breeding
regimen, the animals have experienced a significant, or even tremendous,
decrease in these maladies. Like Daniel said, there is a problem, it's
just a matter of when and how long it takes to manifest itself.
Selective breeding for desired traits is something that exists in this
hobby, and also in the lines of many other animals bred in captivity. But
that was not the original issue. The original issue like you stated was
the initial inquiry of whether inbreeding was "is there a problem with
inbreeding among reptiles". There is no definitive truth, only definitive
horse-sense.
<< It is my opinion that lizard species are more like each other than
not.>>
Compared to what, domesticated dogs:)? Intra or interspecifically? Ever
kept many Bavayia, Diplodactylus (esp. ciliaris), or Nephrurus species? A
LOT of variation (coloration, scalation, length, habitat preference, etc.)
within many of the species, and between species, that confuses the best
and most well-known taxonomists. Some have lumped genera together,
seemingly more out of boredom, only to have them split again later by
someone else with a different perspective.
<< I'm not breeding right now -
I'm mostly interested in Leopard Gecko husbandry.>>
Then in accordance with what I mentioned previously regarding the certain
inbreeding that has occurred with this species, and your interest in the
topic, you should have nothing to worry about for the bulk of your life.
Better to leave our shortcomings to the inheritance of our children.
Perhaps our grandchildren, if they also become interested in our history
and inherit our inbred stocks, can have this discussion when they compare
mutations from lack of new genetic input:) 'Y' (peace)
Jon
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