@Risker, if your high school student are that benign, perhaps I will move to Canada.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:54 PM, Risker <[email protected]> wrote: > Give me a break, Neotarf. I am critiquing the article and the decisions by > its author and its publisher. It doesn't surprise me that having someone > of Keilana's stature drop more f-bombs in a couple of paragraphs than I > heard on a bus full of high school students this morning will change the > climate to suggest that it is now perfectly acceptable to curse out people > everywhere under every circumstance. > > For some strange reason, it appears the people on this list are > celebrating that fact. And it has nothing to do with gender, really, and > everything to do with making Wikipedia a pleasant place to work. Keilana's > actions have encouraged people to make it less so. > > Risker/Anne > > On 22 February 2016 at 12:46, Neotarf <[email protected]> wrote: > >> @Risker, the double standard is that several individuals dropped f-bombs >> on the page, but only the woman got tsked. Talk pages of various users, >> not to mention the arbitration committee's pages, routinely contain >> f-bombs, which I have never seen anyone remark on. JimboTalk has >> occasionally seen some respectful and considerate pushback, but nothing >> like the strident comments on the Signpost piece. True, there was a former >> arbitrator who had an essay about the word deleted, but that was before my >> time. In the current climate, an individual can drop the c-bomb on a >> women's task force page with impunity, while someone who marks such a >> thread with a NSFW tag can be permabanned for doing so. Wikipedia has >> become f-Wikipedia; Keilana has claimed her place at the table. >> >> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:33 PM, J Hayes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> risker: >>> i'm kinda with you about defining deviancy down >>> >>> it's just that things are so bad can't go lower >>> article subjects are already dismayed by the opaque unfriendly culture >>> they periodically ask for article deletion >>> librarians are advised about the "cultural buzzsaw" >>> having a safe environment on line is a lost cause >>> but we can have a grim determination with much cursing >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Risker <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I think I've made myself clear, Pete. I don't think that anything I say >>>> will make a difference, any more than anything I have ever said has changed >>>> the sub-optimal behaviour of any editor who thinks it's acceptable >>>> professional behaviour to cuss all over the place. I'm just really >>>> disappointed that people who used to be in the "let's make this a more >>>> pleasant and positive place to do our work" have gone over to the other >>>> side. >>>> >>>> Risker >>>> >>>> On 21 February 2016 at 19:38, Pete Forsyth <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Risker, I want to be clear: >>>>> >>>>> It's not that I don't see a problem. I'm actually pretty sympathetic >>>>> to your view; but I think your point has been made very strongly already, >>>>> and the important audience is the Signpost editorial staff. I am confident >>>>> they have heard the message, and I don't see how further discussion moves >>>>> us in a better direction. The past can't be changed. I suppose the >>>>> Signpost >>>>> could retract the op-ed, but I rather doubt you're seeking something so >>>>> extreme...or am I wrong? >>>>> >>>>> -Pete >>>>> [[User:Peteforsyth]] >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Risker <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I feel very sad that you fellows don't see the problem in using this >>>>>> kind of language to describe women. "Badass" isn't a compliment. After >>>>>> the >>>>>> first two descriptions, I was fully expecting to see "brilliant >>>>>> motherf***er" to describe the third one. I'm surprised it wasn't used, >>>>>> in >>>>>> fact. >>>>>> >>>>>> The subjects of our articles deserve to be treated much better than >>>>>> this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Further, I'm incredibly disappointed that this got published in The >>>>>> Signpost. On Emily's own page...well, okay. But instead of drawing >>>>>> attention to the women who are the subjects of the articles, almost all >>>>>> of >>>>>> the discussion is about the language used to describe them....and >>>>>> pointing >>>>>> out that several of them already had articles about them that were >>>>>> improved, rather than that they'd not been written about at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> All in all, it impressed me as an island of lovely flowers in a >>>>>> garden with a winter's worth of St. Bernard droppings. >>>>>> >>>>>> Risker >>>>>> >>>>>> On 21 February 2016 at 17:13, Pete Forsyth <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 Ryan. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This was one article, and no Wikipedians, readers, or article >>>>>>> subjects were injured as a result of its publication. I don't really >>>>>>> have a >>>>>>> strong opinion one way or the other about whether using language in this >>>>>>> way is OK. But the main lesson to me is how much the English Wikipedia >>>>>>> community has come to value the Signpost as an institution. It's hard to >>>>>>> imagine such any Signpost column inspiring so much passion, say, five >>>>>>> years >>>>>>> ago. Above all, I think this constitutes a strong endorsement of the >>>>>>> general value of the Signpost. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Pete >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Ryan Kaldari < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The depressing thing to me is that the English Wikipedia community >>>>>>>> takes all of 10 minutes to work itself into a frenzy about the use of >>>>>>>> profanity in a positive, non-personal way, but if an editor on >>>>>>>> Wikipedia >>>>>>>> calls a female editor a cunt, no one dares to bat an eye. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Risker <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it a double standard? If that page hadn't been written by >>>>>>>>> Keilana, would it have been published as is? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Perhaps you're right, it *is* a double standard. Just not quite >>>>>>>>> the one some think it would be. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Risker/Anne >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 21 February 2016 at 08:31, Neotarf <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Op-ed about systemic bias and articles created. Interesting >>>>>>>>>> double standard about profanity in the comment section. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2016-02-17/Op-ed >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gendergap mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >>> visit: >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list >> [email protected] >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > [email protected] > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >
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