Ed, You can sign up at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ccccpolitics/ I started it because heated discussion, mostly about politics, was restricted on CCCCList. I'd like to see reasoned arguments on it on any subject, but I'm also willing to give people enough rope to hang themselves in it. ;) John Hebert --- Ed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John, > > Try signing up for one of the classes. It will tell > you IMMEDIATELY that > you are not running IE!! > > Ed Richards > > PS: I am a member of the Clickers newbies group, but > not the other group. > Where is it? Looks like it could make for some > interesting reading! > > > > At 01:04 AM 7/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >As in Cajun Clickers Computer Club > @yahoogroups.com? whoooboy. You just > >fed me to the wolves, dude! <:-D BTW, in response > to another post I read > >here, I visited clickers.org to look for an IE-only > warning. Didn't see > >it. Used Mozilla 1.0. Am I missing something? > > > >-- > >-j > > > >John Beamon > > > >On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, John Hebert wrote: > > > > > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT) > > > From: John Hebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: RE: [brlug-general] IE un-Security > > > > > > Wow. Too good to keep here in [email protected], > so I > > > forwarding this to [EMAIL PROTECTED], > where > > > politically incorrect rant is encouraged. > > > > > > John Hebert > > > > > > --- john beamon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I want to take this one step farther. There > is a > > > > sales mentality that > > > > computers CAN be bought, plugged in, and on > the web > > > > in 10 minutes. > > > > Therefore, they SHOULD be bought, plugged in, > and on > > > > the web in 10 > > > > minutes. I find this inherently incorrect and > > > > bordering on arrogant. > > > > > > > > We do not require computer users to know two > cents > > > > worth about their > > > > machines or their safe use. We require > waiting > > > > periods, licensing, > > > > training, and legal registration for the > purchase or > > > > even use of guns, > > > > cars, motorcycles, heavy equipment, arc > welders, > > > > etc, but nothing for > > > > computers. Even now, computers and "security > tools" > > > > like GPG and basic > > > > encryption are being criminalized as tools of > > > > terrorists, when the truth > > > > is closer to "terrorists are safer, more > > > > knowledgeable users of basic > > > > computer functions than most Windows users". > > > > Frankly, I applaud their > > > > steps taken toward privacy and discretion and > smart > > > > computer use; when was > > > > the last time the US government cracked a > terrorist > > > > network or fed it a > > > > virus in a Word document? MS commoditized and > > > > simplified the entry-level > > > > OS and released it into the wild. It is > generally > > > > speaking insecure, > > > > buggy, and exploitable. Common users are > generally > > > > naive about its > > > > workings and its safe and controlled use in > public > > > > (networked). By > > > > engineering remote control software into XP, > MS has > > > > shown that they > > > > continue to prefer and promote a naive user > base and > > > > centralized boo-boo > > > > management. > > > > > > > > I disagree strenuously, on grounds economic, > social, > > > > political, and > > > > functional. I believe that users with > increased > > > > clue would trade messages > > > > and data in portable formats, not shiny ones, > so > > > > that they can be reached > > > > from any commoditized machine in any library, > home, > > > > or educational > > > > institution. Anything from an industrial dumb > > > > terminal to a library PC to > > > > a college Mac should be able to read email and > > > > browse the web with at > > > > least some functionality. I believe that more > > > > clueful users would rather > > > > keep their private info private than let MS > into > > > > their machine or let > > > > their cd player (Media Player) report their > > > > listening habits back to a > > > > vendor. I believe that users would feel safer > about > > > > themselves and the > > > > world at large if they had the basic > intellectual > > > > tools to avoid every > > > > virus-infected email attachment that gets sent > them. > > > > Understand, please, > > > > that the vast, VAST majority of viral traffic > is > > > > instigated by curiousity, > > > > not by brute force. More people open unkown > email > > > > attachments, after the > > > > years of Melissa and Nimda and HappyWorm, than > are > > > > infected by > > > > sophisticated autoexecuting binaries in their > > > > unopened mail spools. Those > > > > sophisticated worms ARE a problem, but they > are the > > > > Ebola virus in a world > > > > where millions die for not washing their hands > > > > before they eat. > > > > > > > > The native faculty of Windows to execute any > virus > > > > that comes down the > > > > pike from what SHOULD -- by all measures > functional > > > > and reasonable -- be a > > > > text-only environment is a problem. An > out-of-box > > > > problem. It was > > > > mentioned earlier that a new user on an > out-of-box > > > > machine is not > > > > necessarily "insecure", and I disagree to the > very > > > > last iota. XP comes > > > > preinstalled with the ability to turn on your > PC's > > > > mic, call home to > > > > Microsoft, and allow internet access to your > > > > filesystem, all without your > > > > permission or even knowledge. Don't leave > home WITH > > > > it. I am running one > > > > XP box right now, months after it has been > > > > proctologized and patched into > > > > delirium. I'm still behind a firewall, and I > still > > > > read all my mail in > > > > either PINE or Mozilla, in plain text, > > > > thank-you-very-much. > > > > > > > > I'm not an OS bigot; I've got four copies of > Windows > > > > installed in my > > > > house, three of them dual-booted with Linux. > I am, > > > > however, placing the > > > > blame for this "security" problem where it > belongs, > > > > the official practice > > > > of turning loose self-aware "appliances" that > run > > > > programs out of text > > > > documents and expose raw network sockets to > every > > > > process on the box. > > > > Users who want mail and web should get a > non-root > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com
