I'd like to preface this reply by saying I use Ubuntu Linux primarily, and I
have a Gentoo firewall and laptop.  My wife uses Windows XP Pro and refuses
to try Linux.  I'm OK with this.

I am not a Windows fanboy, nor am I a Linux fanboy.  I simply feel the need
to be current on all computing technology so that I can be competitive in
the job marketplace.  For your information, my current job is VB.Net
programming and my previous job was LAMP programming.

>From experience, it was hard enough to get my family to learn how to use
Windows.  Any distribution of Linux is still way beyond the capabilities of
their understanding.

> Well, I happen to have worked with Scott in the past.
> And I'm pretty sure he doesn't have much experience
> with Windows. So, he wouldn't be of much help with
> supporting Windows for a home user.

It's as simple as creating limited user accounts, installing the latest
patches, and optionally moving to Firefox/Thunderbird.  You don't have to
have a MCSE to understand that.

> I think you are jumping to conclusions rather than
> asking questions and assessing all the information
> objectively.

Linux geeks do that.  It's clear that everyone here does that.

> > MS Windows is great too, especially if you like
> > sharing your computer resources with others on the
> > Internet. ;)
> 
> I use XPSP2 and its personal firewall.

> Funny you mention that:
> http://secunia.com/advisories/13482/

Firefox on Windows doesn't support ActiveX.  I am giving that browser to
people to use now because of the crappiness of IE...which I am not arguing
is superior in any way. 

> I educate users to buy the latest version of Outlook
> (2003) which blocks all
> executable attachments.

> So the solution to badly implemented local security is
> to purchase more Microsoft software?

They are going to buy Office anyway.  Why not use the Outlook 2003 instead
of 2000/2002?  Or even Mozilla Thunderbird for that matter...

> You must be joking. I'll assume you aren't, so do you
> give your users a list of approved sites to go to or
> do you teach them how to recognize "trusted" sites?
> What constitutes a trusted site?

Gambling, porn, and card gaming sites are untrusted.  These types of sites
are known to install spyware and untrusted applications.  It's simply a
fact!

> Of course I'm being facetious. This tactic is a poor
> security method, but now that I think about it,
> reminds me of how Microsoft treats its users.

> Think about what you are saying. Say it out loud and
> really consider what it means:
> "You can't go to some websites on the Internet because
> the OS is not secure."

> Now who is being ridiculous?

These are methods to make sure a person can use Windows securely.  They
work.  You might think them ridiculous, but they do.

> Linux users that run as root all of the time would
> have the same problems as
> a Windows user who runs with administrative
> privileges.

> True, but irrelevant.  

How?  Half to 90% of the Windows vulnerabilities would be ineffectual if the
user did not run with administrative privileges.  I see your fanboy colors
shining through.

> Via a nice GUI front-end to apt, that's how:
> http://www.xandros.com/products/home/xn/xandros_networks.html

> They could learn. And there are a number of nice
> front-ends to apt.

Beside the point, but Synaptic regularly crashes on my Ubuntu machine and I
am forced to use apt-get install.  Wouldn't want my mom to ever have to drop
to the command line to type in any commands to install software.   

> Why pay $5 when you play card games on-line for free,
> without installing software?

> http://www.solitairecentral.com/sol_web.html

Thanks. That doesn't even address my question.  And as for wine, how many of
your non geek family members, even those who use Linux can set up a
successful wine install that will support all of their directX/OPENGL games?


> This is a market share issue, not a technological one.
> There are already some hardware manufacturers that
> release device drivers for Linux. More will follow as
> Linux gains more market share.

Can you install Nvidia's or ATI's closed source (another strike against you
fanboys) drivers from a CD?  Can you click an executable and have it both
compile and install your drivers and automagically update your XF86Config-4
or xorg.conf configuration files? No.  

Until standards are developed and people can insert a CD of their favorite
software or drivers and hit Next a few times to install, I will never
recommend Linux to any of my family members.

> Um, what? Are you high?

Sorry.  All of the software for Linux requires expertise using package
managers to install.  There are no $5 CD's in Walmart that run on Linux.  

I should have qualified that statement.


> So?

> "Linux market may grow to $35 billion by 2008"
> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6719248/

Permit me to laugh at your choice of news sources for that little tidbit..

> The sooner we realize
> that, the better.

> <satire mode="cyncical">Oh my gosh. You are right!
> Better tell all those enterprises running Linux on the
> desktop to go back to Windows.</satire>

Those enterprises have admins to roll out those distributions of Linux.
Sure they like it better - users have no idea how to do anything in Linux
past clicking on icons.  That's a no-brainer.


> I say thank goodness there is no "one size fits all"
> version of Linux. Choice and competition is a good
> thing. Operating systems should not be standard,
> protocols should be.

You're a geek.  You want free, open source software.  I do too, but until
there is a standard free and open source distribution of GNU/Linux where you
can go buy software off the shelf, insert the CD, and click a few buttons to
install it is simply NOT FOR NEWBIES.  

> suggest they purchase OS X on a mac.
> $$$

I'm not arguing that point at all.  It simply is an easy to use alternative
to Windows.  Linux is NOT EASY TO USE.


                
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