My suggestion would be to work on building community first. Not pulling in new committers and PMC members is evidence of a serious community bug. It could be lack of marketing, unfriendly natives, cliquishness or an idea that just doesn't have legs. Probably it is something I didn't think of.
In any case, it would be a really good idea for the current community to show that they can deal with this problem so we don't wind up with a top-level project that doesn't work. Also, even though I have no idea if it is a reasonable outcome, you should always explore the question of where the overhead of a top-level Apache project is even the appropriate outcome. Such a self-examination is always a bit hard and can be very emotionally overloaded, but it is important to stop for a moment to consider what the best outcome for the project, the users of the project and the members of the project really is. For some projects, graduation as a small TLP is right. For somewhat more projects, transition to a non-Apache project structure is right. In most cases, however, it really is best to slog a bit longer and get good at building up the community. On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Jean-Louis MONTEIRO <jeano...@gmail.com> wrote: > So, what are the next steps? > > Do we have to postpone the graduation and try to bring up more contributors > before? > Or do we want to still graduate and work out the community growth after? > > Jean-Louis > > > > Le lun. 4 avr. 2016 à 02:50, Niall Pemberton <niall.pember...@gmail.com> a > écrit : > > > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:54 PM, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > >> Niali, > >> > >> I don't disagree with your assessment. In actuality, Johnzon has only > >> added one committer in its 22 months in the incubator, who later joined > >> their PPMC and is now slated to be their VP. However, adding committers > >> isn't the only form of community growth we expect to see when > graduating. > >> JIRA tickets, user input and seeing the developers interact on the > various > >> lists are also taken into account. > >> > > > > > >> The fact that the podling has some potential new committers in the > >> pipeline > >> is also great to hear. > >> > >> The minimum viable project is three PMC members. Johnzon is a bit > bigger > >> than that. You also have to keep in mind that there are some projects > >> that > >> are just gigantic. Not every project needs to match that structure. > >> > > > > I did some more research and looked at the proposed PMC participation in > > the 10 Johnzon release votes (see attachment) and there are four active > > members. I will withdraw my vote, but I think Johnzon with 4 people and > > only 2 really active on the code is borderline and it needs to recruit > more > > people to be sustainable long term. > > > > Niall > > > > > > > > > >> > >> John > >> > >> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM Niall Pemberton < > niall.pember...@gmail.com > >> > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Mark Struberg > <strub...@yahoo.de.invalid > >> > > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Please look at more current data > >> > > > >> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-johnzon/graphs/contributors > >> > > >> > > >> > I didn't see your commits today - but otherwise doesn't look alot > >> > difference. > >> > > >> > Also note that there are patches applied from contributors via Jira > >> patches > >> > > and NOT via git-pull. Thus they show not up in the graph above. > >> > > > >> > > From that category we have Reinhard Sandtner (apacheId rsandtner) > >> which > >> > is > >> > > closely looked for as potential committer and Karl Grosse (also on > our > >> > > watch list). Both provided patches and contributed in hacking > >> sessions. > >> > > > >> > > >> > Thats great, but I agree with the June, Sept & Dec 2015 board reports > >> > about growing the committers/ppmc - and I don't understand why that > was > >> > reported as a graduation requirement and now its not and Johnzon is > >> ready? > >> > > >> > Niall > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > LieGrue, > >> > > strub > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Sunday, 3 April 2016, 20:18, Niall Pemberton < > >> > > niall.pember...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > Johnzon reports for June, Sept & Dec 2015 all listed "adding new > >> > > > committers/pmc members" in the "most important issues to address > in > >> > > > the > >> > > > move towards graduation" - but in that time there were no changes > to > >> > the > >> > > > community. So what changed to make the ppmc/mentors now think the > >> > project > >> > > > is ready to graduate? > >> > > > > >> > > > Johnzon has added Hendrik Saly as a committer/ppmc member (Aug > 2014 > >> / > >> > Apr > >> > > > 2015), but of the 6 original committers listed on the original > >> > proposal, > >> > > > only 3 are on proposed TLP, so the statement in the Maturity model > >> > saying > >> > > > "List of commmitters and PPMC members has grown during incubation" > >> is > >> > > > a bit > >> > > > misleading. > >> > > > > >> > > > From looking at commits, there are only 2 active people[1] and for > >> me > >> > > thats > >> > > > a concern for the projects long term viability and so my vote is > -1 > >> to > >> > > > graduation. > >> > > > > >> > > > [1] > http://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.fleece.commits > >> > > > > >> > > > Niall > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Hendrik Dev < > hendrikde...@gmail.com > >> > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > >> The Apache Johnzon community has discussed and voted on > >> graduation to > >> > > >> a top level project. The vote passed with 8 +1 votes (5 from the > >> > PPMC) > >> > > >> and no 0 or -1 votes. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Incubation Status: > >> > > >> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/johnzon.html > >> > > >> Maturity Assessment: > >> > > >> https://s.apache.org/d88S > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> Discussions: > >> > > >> https://s.apache.org/5vxO > >> > > >> https://s.apache.org/8VkX > >> > > >> Vote: > >> > > >> https://s.apache.org/suuK > >> > > >> (http://markmail.org/message/mawumtfqokgye5xn) > >> > > >> Result: > >> > > >> https://s.apache.org/Erd0 > >> > > >> (http://markmail.org/message/qmqvk56ccqkq2gob) > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Please vote on the resolution pasted below to graduate Apache > >> Johnzon > >> > > >> from the incubator to top level project. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> [ ] +1 Graduate Apache Johnzon from the Incubator. > >> > > >> [ ] +0 Don't care. > >> > > >> [ ] -1 Don't graduate Apache Johnzon from the Incubator because > >> ... > >> > > >> > >> > > >> This vote will be open for at least 72 hours. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Many thanks to our mentors and everyone else for the support, > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Hendrik Saly on behalf of the Apache Johnzon PPMC > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Apache Johnzon top-level project resolution: > >> > > >> ============================================ > >> > > >> > >> > > >> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best > >> > > >> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the > >> > > >> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management > >> > > >> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of > >> > > >> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to > >> > > >> the public, related to JSR-353 compliant JSON parsing and a > >> > > >> set of useful modules to help with the usage of JSR-353 > >> > > >> as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related JSRs > >> > > >> (like JSR-367). > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management > >> > > >> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Johnzon Project", > >> > > >> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the > >> > > >> Foundation; and be it further > >> > > >> > >> > > >> RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and hereby is > >> > > >> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software > >> > > >> related to JSR-353 compliant JSON parsing and a > >> > > >> set of useful modules to help with the usage of JSR-353 > >> > > >> as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related JSRs > >> > > >> (like JSR-367); and be it further > >> > > >> > >> > > >> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Johnzon" be > >> > > >> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to > >> > > >> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair > >> > > >> of the Apache Johnzon Project, and to have primary > responsibility > >> > > >> for management of the projects within the scope of > >> > > >> responsibility of the Apache Johnzon Project; and be it further > >> > > >> > >> > > >> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and > >> > > >> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the > >> > > >> Apache Johnzon Project: > >> > > >> > >> > > >> * Justin Mclean <jmclean AT apache.org> > >> > > >> * Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau AT apache.org> > >> > > >> * Jean-Louis Monteiro <jlmonteiro AT apache.org> > >> > > >> * Mark Struberg <struberg AT apache.org> > >> > > >> * Hendrik Saly <salyh AT apache.org> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Hendrik Saly > (salyh) > >> > > >> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Johnzon, to > >> > > >> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the > >> > > >> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until > >> > > >> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification, > >> > > >> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further > >> > > >> > >> > > >> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Johnzon PMC be and hereby is > >> > > >> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to > >> > > >> encourage open development and increased participation in the > >> > > >> Apache Johnzon Project; and be it further > >> > > >> > >> > > >> RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and hereby > >> > > >> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache > >> > > >> Incubator Johnzon podling; and be it further > >> > > >> > >> > > >> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache > >> > > >> Incubator Johnzon podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator > >> > > >> Project are hereafter discharged. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> -- > >> > > >> Hendrik Saly (salyh, hendrikdev22) > >> > > >> @hendrikdev22 > >> > > >> PGP: 0x22D7F6EC > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: > >> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >
