On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 15:39, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > I'm moving this to PMC. > > Jason van Zyl wrote, On 06/02/2003 19.15: > > On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 12:53, Costin Manolache wrote: > ... > > I'm not stopping anyone from participating. Nicola jumps out of nowhere, > > starts a project that completely replicates what's already been done and > > I'm supposed to jump for joy and clamour to be a part of? > > You are saying false things. > > Maven started out of Gump. It duplicated Gump, Ant, Alexandria... who is > duplicating who?
Gump _never_ used an object model, never. Gump was targeted at overall control by a small set of people (and it's still that way, no one outside of Jakarta/XML barely knows what it is) to build sources against CVS. That's not what Maven was ever targeted at, ever. Maven uses Ant but Ant has no concept of an object model either. I definitely admit to not wanting to use the Gump descriptor and that's proven to be a good thing. If you call Maven a duplicate of a tool that generates 30k line shell scripts then do as you please. > I have started the project way before I ever knew of Maven. _before I ever knew of Maven_ That's fine. Don't presume to know how long I've been thinking of Maven before the first line of code landed anywhere. > And I also > asked to merge efforts, at a point when we were downloading plugins, and > Maven didn't even have a single plugin because it haven't even decided > to have them. Give me a break. Again like a pluggable functionality is a radical new idea. Your plugins are ant build files. So you came out first with a way to pull in ant build files. Woo hoo! So you're saying we stole your idea to have pluggable capabilities because you could import and an Ant file. Again, please spare me the laughable nature of what you're saying. > All these are in the mailing lists, and in CVS history, as well as > comments in public IRC channels on werken, where you and others clearly > deride me. This is not what I would expect from Apache members, and > certainly it's not what you have gotten from me. No, we only got from you initially the accusation that we stole your miraculous ideas. That's where it started and that's why I refuse to cooperate with you. You act like the Pontiff of Opensource sprouting up little projects here and there and then when people don't want to 'merge' or 'cooperate' you have little hissy fits. JCharts (or JFreeCharts or whatever) ring any bells? That you went and started another graph package because the author of the package didn't want any part of krysalis. I feel that's what you do with everything, start some project under the guise of community because no one really wants to work with you. > I have worked with all these projects so that we did not duplicate. The > *only* project that rejected me was Maven. And rejected me badly. I don't care what you do or do not do. I didn't want any part of Gump code, 30k lines shells scripts, a DOM model or a big heap of ant build files. So yes, I am the one who advocated not working together but I certainly wasn't the only one who felt like that. > > I am not stopping anyone from participating. Nicola once argued to keep > > JARs in CVS and now all of a sudden it's a fabulous idea not to store > > the JARs in CVS. What a revelation! > > In fact Centipede can be easily used by keeping jars in CVS. I still > think that in many cases it's a necessity. Of course it is. I'm not arguing the fact that this is sometimes necessary what is that it probably didn't even occur to you (and seemed like that to me with the mountain of JARs in the krysalis repository at one point in time) until it was a function of Maven. Of course this is not a new and radical idea either. I just dislike the up and starting of a new project. We rejected a merger with your code, we didn't reject your input or your ideas. You've never been able to distinguish those two things. > I haven't changed my mind on > this, although I *do* change my mind when I see compelling reasons, as > any reasonable person does. > > ... > > It's not a Maven only repository. We built the whole infrastructure and > > did _all_ the work but anyone can use it if they so desire. I choose not > > to participate with certain people and they choose not to pariticipate > > where every last single stroke of effort has been made to set up the > > repository. Don't start twisting reality. > > You are the one twisting reality, Jason. > > I have sent you more than a mail privately telling you to partecipate in > the discussions on infrastructure about mirroring, so that the Maven > repository would be part of that effort, and lead the way. I'm not interested in an Apache only repository and I'm not interested in a repository for anything other than artifacts related to Java development. I am going to find what suits Java developers first and we're getting the feedback we need from thousands of people using maven. I am leading the way. What do you think Maven is? > We were using > JJAR, but then decided to move to the Maven repository so we were not > duplicating stuff. Is this bad? I've told you several times that JJAR exists purely because I asked for it. I know what it is, what it does and why by itself it's not sufficient. It was an experiment by Geir, he left it and I moved on. It was dead for a long time and you picked it up against my warning. You are free to do what you like and you can use JJAR. I disagreed and don't want to use it and neither do any of the other Maven developers. > Do I necessarily have to use Maven not to upset you? > Am I wrong because I tried to follow the rules and develop centipede at > Sourceforge? Develop what you like and how you like it. I do not care what you do but if someone asks me my opinion of the work I'm sure as hell going to give it to them. > BTW, for the record, was the creation of the jakarta-turbine-maven > resources (CVS and lists) approved by this PMC? Yes, they were. The creation of the lists didn't get by Sam. It was Costin who argued that each project should be allowed to do what it likes. > I find it peculiar that > we go so many levels deep Apache-Jakarta-Turbine-Maven. > > I am very, very sad and actually concerned about your behaviour. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
