Henri Yandell wrote:
Obviously, something is afoot ... otherwise, why are healthy projects moving out of Jakarta, up to the top level (Ant, Maven and now logging)? Is that the destiny of Jakarta, to be a second-level incubator for projects on the way to TLP status? If so ... embrace that.
As far as I know, there is much ASF community resistance to Jakarta continuing to be an Incubator. We're no longer anywhere near server-side Java at ASF. Basically we are now: "What's left of the old server-side Java project at ASF, but a bit confused about it all".
Hen
Your right, the real question is "What is Jakarta?"
Is it a java component incubator or is it a umbrella for "server side java"?
The idea of "server side java" is a "weak" one in my book. There is no such thing as "server side java" and "client side java", its all the same JVM! There are a few components that act as servers (tomcat, james, etc). There are components that are developed with the intention of running on those services (Struts, JSTL, Velocity ...) And there are java components that are totally agnostic to this artificial boundary of "client/server side java" (most of jakarta commons). There are components that were designed to be intentional gui clients (JMeter etc). But what they all have in common is "java".
Jakarta is a java component incubator!
I suspect the components that have left Jakarta have done so because they've felt limited by its past mandate as "server side java" or "things that run on tomcat"...
Either way, language based delineations in top level apache project boundaries are logical given that its often the case that a subproject is usually developed with one language in mind (java, perl, c, php, xml). Yes there are overlaps and exceptions to this case (Xerces and Xalan for instance), but they are usually consolidated under an appropriate umbrella of commonality (in this case XML). I'm not convinced that a language "agnostic" top level incubator is a bad or good thing, I just think it may not be a very "popular thing" because of these "umbrellas of commonality" that arise based on language and implementation. In context to the parent projects umbrella is where the most appropriate creativity and invention arise, leading to the most successful subprojects.
-Mark
-- Mark Diggory Software Developer Harvard MIT Data Center http://osprey.hmdc.harvard.edu
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