---Don Watson wrote: > Criterion 7a An addition can be made to the J system to make it more > suitable for teaching, by the replacement of two character symbols on > the screen with single symbols designed to have meaning related to their > function. > > Criterion 7c The same keyboard could be used for ASCII applications if > the revised system: > > * Required exactly the same keystrokes in the "A" mode as in the > "J" mode. > > * Placed all three related symbols on the same key (e.g., = with > new symbols replacing =. and =:). > > * Had a convention in their positioning as to which one came from > one keystroke, which from adding "." And which from adding ":". > > Criterion 7d As a result, the system changes in J would be very easy to > make - the only change in the "A" mode would need to be in looking in a > two character table to find the single symbol replacement and presenting > it on the screen (and in printing). >
Hi Don, I am interested in your experiences teaching J to kids, I have my own that I am try to engage as well! If you search through the forum archives, you will find that this topic has come up a number of times, it might be helpful to read through the points that have been made (on both sides of the debate). For what they are worth here are my thoughts on the issue: I suspect that the issue of ASCII instead of symbols is potentially harder for previous APL users (I am one) than those new to the paradigm - especially kids. I haven't found any resistance to using ASCII characters with my kids. They are more interested in what can be done and pick up the relationships between symbols eg: /: grade up, \: grade down and <. floor, >. ceiling very quickly. The choice of ASCII symbols for particular operations has obviously been done quite thoughtfully and the use of . and : to signify a group of similar operations makes it easier to get a feel for what sort of base operation might be involved. Using separate symbols adds another layer of abstraction. If the symbol you need to type is <: the chances are your fingers already know where to find those symbols on the keyboard and if not, they are nicely labelled for you already. I think this is especially significant early on - learning key mappings can be a frustration that gets in the way of learning the language. There are significantly more primitives in J than APL, that means quite a number of symbols to design, create and learn the key mappings for. Although the increasing pervasiveness of Unicode is making good progress in improving the "shareability" of APL code, it is still not "there" yet. > Since such a change would be so easy to implement, someone must have > already produced such a system. Could you please own up? I'd like a > copy. I think that potentially the hardest part of implementing a system like this would be to come up with an appropriate set of symbols as alternatives for the current ASCII ones. If I wanted to see a change like this happen, then that would be the place I'd start. In my opinion it would be more productive to put the effort into designing more/better teaching modules. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
