It is definitely true that raw novices pick up J quicker than
experienced programmers. I am finally getting to teach a full class of
all J to bright highschoolers, and they are really picking it up. The
one student who had a year of Java programming started writing while.
loops, and it took a few days for him to detox, but he's doing fine now.
Henry Rich
On 9/20/2011 8:47 PM, Ian Clark wrote:
>> Being completely new to J, I have new eyes and could, perhaps, add changes
>> to the document which would enable the next reader to have a smoother
>> session with that document. Shall I do that? Or should I file a report
>> somewhere with these changes?
>
> I have a professional interest in novice uptake of computer tools, J
> in particular -- and what constitutes appropriate documentation. "New
> eyes" are precious -- and we're apt to forget how precious. And
> transient.
>
> The rest of us have Rumsfeld Syndrome over how a novice views J
> documentation ("unknown unknowns"). It very much depends on where the
> novice is coming from, if it's not from APL. Henry's JfC explicitly
> addresses C programmers, and from my recollection of C programming
> it's spot-on. We need others like that.
>
> Can you please keep notes of your stumbles with the existing
> documentation? Feel free to pm me with them. There will be questions
> you'll have that you simply would not think to ask in a couple of
> months. This does not invalidate them.
>
> Pirsig quotes a 1970s Japanese instruction leaflet: "Assembly of
> Japanese Bicycle requires Great Peace of Mind". J too. I don't make
> friends on the list for saying this. Learning J demands a lot of the
> novice in the first month or so, because you have to un-learn so much.
> I'm told that if you know absolutely nothing, J is no more difficult
> than any other computer language, and more rewarding than most for a
> specific amount of effort.
>
> But IMO much of the effort demanded of the novice is wasted, because
> the ladders have missing rungs.
>
> Everyone knows this, and you'll see the J universe littered with good
> ideas to fix it, which have not been carried through. Ah well...
> volunteers. There's also a cultural addiction to terseness, of which I
> fully approve: I much prefer terse opacity to verbose opacity.
>
> To counteract this we have a bunch of nice guys on this list, very
> patient, as I can testify. The point was made to me once however that
> extensive publication of the sort you suggest in the programming
> forum, is largely wasted because it gets buried and forgotten. Best to
> get familiar with the J wiki (as recommended indeed in
> http://www.jsoftware.com/start.htm) -- and get write-permission so you
> can write your novice experiences on your own wiki page. If I know
> it's there (just pm me with the link) then I, for one, will certainly
> consult it when next I feel the urge to write material for the J
> novice.
>
> And, being a wiki, it's easier for you to do small fixups to the
> documentation yourself, than file a report for someone's groaning
> in-tray.
>
> One thing http://www.jsoftware.com/start.htm doesn't mention is that
> JfC is also available in hardcopy from Lulu.com -- but you have to go
> to http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/HenryRich to find *that* out. (Or:
> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Books).
>
> @Henry -- could I tempt you to do a lie-flat edition? (I'd buy one.)
>
> Ian Clark
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Christopher McIntosh
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thank you, Devon, for your prompt reply.
>>
>> Another problem on this page (towards the end) is that it refers to the
>> "Edit|Configure|Display" option to change from the Box display to the Linear
>> display. The GtkIDE has an Edit|Configure menu... but there is no "Display"
>> option. I expect that this has also changed from previous versions. (??)
>>
>> After exploring further (after all my goal is to learn), I found a reference
>> (in the Dictionary's Appendix) to the 9!: foreign conjunction. I was able
>> to use "9!:(3) 5" to accomplish the objective of switching to Linear Display
>> mode...
>>
>> Also, I see that "9!:(49) 1" could have allowed me to use the forms (i.e.,
>> "x.", "y.") which had originally caused me problems following along with the
>> Primer.
>>
>> Being completely new to J, I have new eyes and could, perhaps, add changes
>> to the document which would enable the next reader to have a smoother
>> session with that document. Shall I do that? Or should I file a report
>> somewhere with these changes?
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
