It would be interesting to hear how the Java programmer takes to JHS and to mix AJAX/JS/J
2011/9/21 Henry Rich <[email protected]> > It is definitely true that raw novices pick up J quicker than > experienced programmers. I am finally getting to teach a full class of > all J to bright highschoolers, and they are really picking it up. The > one student who had a year of Java programming started writing while. > loops, and it took a few days for him to detox, but he's doing fine now. > > Henry Rich > > On 9/20/2011 8:47 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > >> Being completely new to J, I have new eyes and could, perhaps, add > changes > >> to the document which would enable the next reader to have a smoother > >> session with that document. Shall I do that? Or should I file a report > >> somewhere with these changes? > > > > I have a professional interest in novice uptake of computer tools, J > > in particular -- and what constitutes appropriate documentation. "New > > eyes" are precious -- and we're apt to forget how precious. And > > transient. > > > > The rest of us have Rumsfeld Syndrome over how a novice views J > > documentation ("unknown unknowns"). It very much depends on where the > > novice is coming from, if it's not from APL. Henry's JfC explicitly > > addresses C programmers, and from my recollection of C programming > > it's spot-on. We need others like that. > > > > Can you please keep notes of your stumbles with the existing > > documentation? Feel free to pm me with them. There will be questions > > you'll have that you simply would not think to ask in a couple of > > months. This does not invalidate them. > > > > Pirsig quotes a 1970s Japanese instruction leaflet: "Assembly of > > Japanese Bicycle requires Great Peace of Mind". J too. I don't make > > friends on the list for saying this. Learning J demands a lot of the > > novice in the first month or so, because you have to un-learn so much. > > I'm told that if you know absolutely nothing, J is no more difficult > > than any other computer language, and more rewarding than most for a > > specific amount of effort. > > > > But IMO much of the effort demanded of the novice is wasted, because > > the ladders have missing rungs. > > > > Everyone knows this, and you'll see the J universe littered with good > > ideas to fix it, which have not been carried through. Ah well... > > volunteers. There's also a cultural addiction to terseness, of which I > > fully approve: I much prefer terse opacity to verbose opacity. > > > > To counteract this we have a bunch of nice guys on this list, very > > patient, as I can testify. The point was made to me once however that > > extensive publication of the sort you suggest in the programming > > forum, is largely wasted because it gets buried and forgotten. Best to > > get familiar with the J wiki (as recommended indeed in > > http://www.jsoftware.com/start.htm) -- and get write-permission so you > > can write your novice experiences on your own wiki page. If I know > > it's there (just pm me with the link) then I, for one, will certainly > > consult it when next I feel the urge to write material for the J > > novice. > > > > And, being a wiki, it's easier for you to do small fixups to the > > documentation yourself, than file a report for someone's groaning > > in-tray. > > > > One thing http://www.jsoftware.com/start.htm doesn't mention is that > > JfC is also available in hardcopy from Lulu.com -- but you have to go > > to http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/HenryRich to find *that* out. (Or: > > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Books). > > > > @Henry -- could I tempt you to do a lie-flat edition? (I'd buy one.) > > > > Ian Clark > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Christopher McIntosh > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you, Devon, for your prompt reply. > >> > >> Another problem on this page (towards the end) is that it refers to the > >> "Edit|Configure|Display" option to change from the Box display to the > Linear > >> display. The GtkIDE has an Edit|Configure menu... but there is no > "Display" > >> option. I expect that this has also changed from previous versions. > (??) > >> > >> After exploring further (after all my goal is to learn), I found a > reference > >> (in the Dictionary's Appendix) to the 9!: foreign conjunction. I was > able > >> to use "9!:(3) 5" to accomplish the objective of switching to Linear > Display > >> mode... > >> > >> Also, I see that "9!:(49) 1" could have allowed me to use the forms > (i.e., > >> "x.", "y.") which had originally caused me problems following along with > the > >> Primer. > >> > >> Being completely new to J, I have new eyes and could, perhaps, add > changes > >> to the document which would enable the next reader to have a smoother > >> session with that document. Shall I do that? Or should I file a report > >> somewhere with these changes? > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur Fornustekkum II 781 Hornafirði, t-póst: [email protected] gsm: +3546985532 twitter: @flugfiskur http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum /|_ .-----------------------------------. ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | ( -. | `-----------------------------------' | ) | (\_ _/) (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
