I see we agree. You do describe a tool and I said without a tool
2011/10/2 Ian Clark <[email protected]> > > Searching unknown locales/objects directly is a very difficult and time > > consuming task and it is good to be able to do so but having that as the > > only tool is like diving in muddy water. > > Sorry, I disagree. With the right tool (a browser) the water's > crystal-clear and it's quick and easy. So easy it's become my tool of > choice, when perhaps I ought to be editing scripts directly. It's > brilliant for unlocking the secrets of j602 JWD. > > Oleg wrote such a browser back in 2007. Cobrowse. > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Addons/gui/util > If I'd known about it soon enough (its designation: class browser, > didn't click with me) I wouldn't have bothered writing my own. But > it's allowed me to incorporate my own pet functionality. > > > 2011/10/2 Björn Helgason <[email protected]>: > > Years of searching through other peoples codes of uncertain workings has > > made me appreciate search tools and I love to put asserts into the code > so I > > know the values involved at execution time. > > > > Does not matter if it is C code or J and scripts are basically where you > > find the functions/verbs/names and then pepper the code with asserts and > > then execute the system. > > > > Very often you find that the fault in broken code happens because of > wrong > > operation executed long before the brake occurs but an assert in the > right > > place or all over the place will give you the cause. > > > > Searching unknown locales/objects directly is a very difficult and time > > consuming task and it is good to be able to do so but having that as the > > only tool is like diving in muddy water. > > > > 2011/10/2 Ian Clark <[email protected]> > > > >> > the same spirit of decommting workspace in flavor of scripts, that > >> searching > >> > names inside scripts is preferable to searching names inside loaded > >> locales. > >> > >> Habits of a lifetime, Bill. APL has induced an occupational deformity > >> in me. Basically I'd agree with you, as advice to beginners. > >> > >> As a callow youth, they taught me to fly planes. Experienced pilots > >> hated the idea of fly-by-wire. They wanted to know there was a direct > >> mechanical linkage from the joystick to the control surfaces, even if > >> (like power steering) it's only there for reassurance and can't > >> feasibly be used on its own. To me the "workspace" debate in J has > >> similarities. > >> > >> A lot depends on whether you're browsing someone else's code, as you > >> find it in your system, or writing your own for release. If the > >> latter, I'd say always work on the script itself. When all else fails, > >> only then work on what got squirted into memory. > >> > >> The fact you don't have a script in APL is not a defence of workspace > >> technology but a tribute to the stability of the full-screen (del) > >> editor -- agonisingly evolved over decades. Just think back to APLSV > >> on the early 3270 screens. > >> > >> But I shouldn't go digging up old bones. > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 5:51 AM, bill lam <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I didn't know this verb and have never used it before. However I > guess, > >> in > >> > the same spirit of decommting workspace in flavor of scripts, that > >> searching > >> > names inside scripts is preferable to searching names inside loaded > >> locales. For > >> > example use FIF to search 'deb' in global names should return the same > >> (or > >> > more) definitions as that returing from whs. > >> > > >> > That said, I rarely use FIF by now because I seldom use ide either. > >> > > >> > ymmv > >> > > >> >> To sniff over any new word I've discovered, I make heavy use of my > >> home-brewed: > >> >> whs=: (>@whichlocales) ; whichscript > >> >> > >> >> used like this: > >> >> whs'deb' > >> >> ┌──────────────────────────────────────────┬─┬─┬─┬────┬────┐ > >> >> │/Applications/j602/system/main/strings.ijs│z│z│j│jfiw│jijs│ > >> >> └──────────────────────────────────────────┴─┴─┴─┴────┴────┘ > >> >> > >> >> ...from which you see "deb" resides all over the place (in identical > >> >> copies, fortunately :) > >> >> > >> >> I find "whs" egregiously useful. Most of the bugs I encounter come > >> >> from what is [not] loaded, and where it is [from]. > >> >> > >> >> The verbs it needs: whichlocales, whichscript, along with: > >> >> listnameswithprefix (just as useful) can be copied from: > >> >> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Phrases/Names . It happens they are > >> >> *not* part of stdlib. I think they should be. (@Ric; how about it?) > >> > > >> > -- > >> > regards, > >> > ==================================================== > >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur > > Fornustekkum II > > 781 Hornafirði, > > t-póst: [email protected] > > gsm: +3546985532 > > twitter: @flugfiskur > > http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming > > > > > > Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans > > > > góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum > > /|_ .-----------------------------------. > > ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | > > ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | > > / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | > > ( -. | `-----------------------------------' > > | ) | (\_ _/) > > (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ > > `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur Fornustekkum II 781 Hornafirði, t-póst: [email protected] gsm: +3546985532 twitter: @flugfiskur http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum /|_ .-----------------------------------. ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | ( -. | `-----------------------------------' | ) | (\_ _/) (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
