On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 13:46:48 +0300 Artem Bityutskiy <[email protected]> said:
> On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 19:08 +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:42:34 +0300 Artem Bityutskiy > > <[email protected]> said: > > > > > Hi JF, > > > > > > there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what are you going to > > > do and why. > > > > > > And frankly, the announcement is guilty in that. You did not carefully > > > and nicely explain what exactly you do, and why exactly, and which users > > > would be affected and how exactly. > > > > > > I suggest you guys to come up with a new good survey description. Make > > > sure it answers the above questions. Also, go through this thread, find > > > out what confused people, and make sure you have a Q&A section in your > > > new survey, and the section clears the confusion. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > P.S. What I found out from talking to people, _not_ from the announce: > > > > > > 1. The intended change _only_ affects mic and gbs, nothing else. > > > 2. The change is about stopping producing i586 mic and gbs builds. Other > > > tools will still have i586 builds. > > > 3. The change _does not_ mean that mic/gbs won't be able to generate > > > i586 images. > > > 4. On the opposite, x86_68 mic/gbs _will_ be able to generate i586 > > > images. > > > 5. So this will only limit people in choosing their _build host_, not > > > the _target Tizen OS_. > > > > > > Right? > > > > that's what i'm assuming. :) and here i assume that tizen SHOULD be > > self-hosting. > > Why? :) Is Android self-hosting, for example? :-) i don't much care, BUT every distribution i know if *IS* and tizen is a linux distribution, it is not android. android is a totally foreign OS. > > that means a tizen install (on a hypothetical tizen pc laptop or > > a tizen tablet or phone or ivi system - who cares) SHOULD be able to, with > > some added pkgs, have gbs, mic, gcc, toolchains etc. > > Hypothetical Tizen PC - sure, sounds natural. and at that point it's game over. people are working on tizen pc already. so its not hypothetical. it's real for some already. > Mobile/IVI? Not sure. IVI - may be (have not heard arguments or real > usage stories yet), Mobile - less sure. Really, I do not know. I'd love > to find this out as an outcome of this survey. :-) how is mobile different to a pc? if i have a tablet and a keyboard attached.. should i not be able to do do development on it? todays phones and tablets are faster than the pc you did top end development on a few years back. with as much or more memory and much faster "disk", and well enough of it. i don't even need a keyboard. touchscreen will do. and see below about tizen pc. > So if you really need to run MIC/GBS on a Phone/IVI system running > Tizen, tell some about your use-case. tizen pc. enough said. mobile is no different other than default ui style. the os is the same from the point of view of gbs/qemu/builds etc. > Remember, this is also about resources. Is it best to spend time on > 32-bit support now vs working on other things. 32bit is REAL. TODAY. most people in the office have ONLY 32bit distro installs because the early sdk's only supported 32bit. installing a 64bit distro is exceedingly painful due to restrictions on the network, and thnigs like thumbdrives and removable media being banned/disallowed (without jumping through hoops), so people dont just install a new distro whenever they feel like it. it will pretty much mean several days of downtime and a lot of hoop jumping. > > installed just like any distro, > > and then i should be able to use that tizen running device (be it ix86, > > x86_64 or arm or arm64) to build tizen entirely from nothing to working > > image (building tizen here means build a running working target image of > > ix86, x86-64, arm, arm64 or for that matter any other architectures we will > > end up supporting, if any). > > Again, I am not sure many people would do this on a Tizen phone. And > the survey was about finding out if anyone really uses a 32-bit system > to build Tizen images "from nothing", would these mind to switch to a > 64-bit system, etc. They need some numbers, details. > > > if removing support for 32bit means "giving up on qemu 32bit address space > > bugs" and thus making 32bit hosts unable to run gbs etc. etc. to run a local > > build to product an arbitrary architecture output, then i think that would > > be embarrassing that we can't self host. > > I agree self-host is great and a high bar and indication of quality > maturity. Are we on that level? I wish we would. But right now we do not > even sign Tizen repos, and Tizen images, although it is 21st century, > and people care about security. We do not sign git tags too. Do we have > git history on all projects? Things like this are _more_ embarrassing to > me than being not able to build a Tizen image on a Tizen phone... The > latter is not even embarassing, IMHO. > > So I'd try to be practical and look at reality/priorities/goals and > resources available. Would you like help with 32-bit issues the tools > people hit? :-) > > -- > Best Regards, > Artem Bityutskiy > -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[email protected]> _______________________________________________ General mailing list [email protected] https://lists.tizen.org/listinfo/general
