1 from me. everybody needs something like this. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph Okomba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 7:27 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [vote] A native XML database project under Apache
+1 from me. > -----Original Message----- > From: Stefano Mazzocchi [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 18 October 2001 22:53 > To: Apache XML; Kimbro Staken > Subject: [vote] A native XML database project under Apache > > Hi, > > while the world of native XML databases is full of marketing hype and > promises, it is evident (for all those who tried) that mapping general > XML schemas to relational databases can be sometimes very painful and > not very efficient. > > In fact, it is widely recognized from the database research community > that while well structured can be easily and efficiently mapped to a > relational database, less structured (often called semi-structured) data > is much more difficult to map. > > Don't get me wrong: there are a number of way to store XML in a database > to add ACID properties to XML documents, but while this is a > straightforward process for very repeatitive and well structured schemas > (invoices, stock quotes, money transactions), it is not so for > semi-structured schemas such as DocBook, SVG or even XSLT. > > I here you say: I use BLOBS and I'm fine with them. I'm sure you are, > but in all honesty, I'm not. And for a few reasons: > > 1) each documentation system requires a repository for document. This is > often called "content management system". Since publishing is going > toward replacing all content with an XML syntax (and we all love to see > that happening in full extend), we must consider that such a system will > require a persistent way to manage the content and a fast and efficient > way to query it. > > If you use BLOBS you loose an efficient way to look into the blobs > themselves so you are doomed before you even start. > > You can fragment the XML document into relational mapping to > semi-structured data (and remember that documentation is almost always > semi-structured!) but it can be shown that this is hard, very expensive > and might require (depending on the document schema) a very high number > of nested queries to translate even a very simple XPath expression. > > Add complexities such as namespaces and the proposed XQL and you see > that a XQL -> SQL might well be possible but is clearly going to become > a nightmare to manage and very painful to optimize for efficiency. > > The remaining solution is to create a specific solution that leaves > structured data to RDBMS (where they really shine, no question about it) > but moves semi-structured data over to a more specific and > algorithmically optimized system. > > Note that while ODBMS were supposed to solve the problem of > semi-structured data, they, in fact, do not. > > This is why we need a native XML DB solution with full support for > namespaced content, XPath and XQL for querying, RDF for metadata. > > 2) so, the content management system that everybody is crying out loud > for requires a storage solution and I believe that a native XML DB is > the way to go. > > Also because: > > 3) if we ever want to get deeper into the semantic web (and I, > personally, want), we must forget well structured data. Vocabularies > such as RDF, RDFSchema, Topic Maps and the like are *not* going to be > easily mapped into relational databases and efficiently searched. > > So, this is why I propose the creation of a project hosted here under > xml.apache.org to implement this effort. > > Since it's generally very hard to bootstrap an open development > community without some code to start working on, I suggest to start this > project over the code that the dbXML guys are willing to donate to the > ASF in order to create such development community that can research and > implement in this new field and, by doing so, hopefully lead the way > reducing the marketing crap and the hype around this. > > FYI, dbXML (www.dbxml.org) is an implementation of a native XML database > written in the Java language that is close to reaching its first final > release. > > I've been talking to one of the community leaders (here copied) that > independently came out with my same conclusion and wanted to propose > dbXML for donation even before I expressed my intentions. > > Also Sam Ruby has been subscribed to their development list watching > over them. > > dbXML was created with the sponsor of a commercial entity called "dbXML > Group" which still exists but has no economic energy to continue its > development and the main developers are now working on the project > unpaid. > > But I'd like something to be clear: I'm *NOT* proposing that Apache > takes over 'dbXML group' to save dbXML and continue its development. I'm > proposing that Apache creates a new project for the creation of a > production quality native XML database solution that implements existing > and future standards (and hopefully have the power to influence their > establishment) and that in order to help bootstrap the community, we > start with the current dbXML implementation which is going to be donated > to the ASF. > > To show this and to avoid confusion with past releases and the "dbXML > group" commercial entity, the project is *NOT* going to be called Apache > dbXML, but rather something without acronims, in the spirit of > xml.apache.org. > > Kimbro and I have been talking about "Apache BooBoo", but that is just > the first name that crossed my mind :) If you have better names, please, > let us discuss this publicly if the deal gets approuved. > > Anyway, the dbXML folks are willing to donate the code, to change the > name as long as we give proper credit to "dbXML group" for having > bootstrapped and donated the code (as we do for IBM, Lotus, Sun and > others), and more than willing to help in both development, user > support, research, community and evangelization. In fact, if the deal is > accepted by this list, they are even willing to close down the site and > move everything overhere with the new name. > > Let me finish by saying that I do not consider important what the actual > code implementation is (few, myself included, might not like some of > their architectural choices, such as the use of CORBA and Jaggernaut), > but I'm *NOT* asking for a vote on their _actual_ technological status, > I'm asking for a vote to create a community that can create, maintain > and show the power of a native XML DB solution. > > It might takes years to have something solid enough to compete with big > commercial names, but it is important, IMO, for Apache to have something > to say even on this front by creating a community and attracting people > and their ideas. > > In fact, the dbXML guys are willing to donate the code, but also very > happy about the possibility of a higher visibility that would bring more > people and more ideas into the design process that is going to happen > for their next major release. > > So, people, I'm asking you to judge the idea to create a community, > rather than the current dbXML implementation which is only a way to give > to users the meat the look for in that area, but then attract them for > new development and further research. > > Sorry for the long mail. > > Please, place your vote. > > Thanks. > > Stefano. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > In case of troubles, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- In case of troubles, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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