On Sun, 3 May 2009 18:51:59 -0400
Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:

> Peter Faraday Weller <w...@gentoo.org> posted
> 1241385973.4028.67.ca...@localhost.localdomain, excerpted below, on  Sun,
> 03 May 2009 22:26:13 +0100:
> > On a more serious note, the problem seems to be the complete lack of
> > management in the required places, Gentoo is fast becoming (or more
> > likely, already is) an anarchic organisation, where it's becoming
> > nigh-on impossible to keep track of things.
> >
> > I see a number of issues with Gentoo these days. The lack of a proper
> > leadership body. Lack of people working together in unison. The tree
> > needs to be sorted out: we have >16000 packages, and 200-250 developers,
> > not all of which are ebuild developers) - We're still using CVS, we do
> > *not* have the manpower to keep all the packages updated properly using
> > a centralised VCS. If these issues were fixed, I don't know/care how
> > they do get fixed, but if they were, I might consider coming back.
> FWIW, from my perspective, Gentoo has turned the corner, we've hit the
> low point (which I'd put at when the foundation dissolved due to malaise)
> and things are beginning to improve now.  Certainly there's a lot of work
> remaining to be done and nobody's perfect, but I really do see positive
> changes this last year or so.

For what it's worth (probably not much) I think Foundation is
functioning now.  At least, we are legal again, have bylaws, and a real
bank account.

> The council is actually somewhat functional now again, no more multi-hour
> meetings that get little if anything accomplished.  Gentoo worked thru
> the foundation and council crises.  I don't do IRC so can't evaluate it,
> but certainly, the lists have gotten rather more professional the last
> while -- no more severe personal attacks, and when it starts heading that
> way, often both sides get warnings to "stop it" and people do (tho this
> of course doesn't mean there's not disagreements, only that they're kept
> to something approaching a reasonable professional level).
> Yes, Gentoo is still using CVS, but there are moves toward something
> else, with GIT seemingly the lead candidate.  While I don't see it
> getting to that point in the remaining bit of the current council term, I
> hope that it's a major item on the agenda for the next council to deal
> with.  The overlay structure seems to be quite active and is continuing
> toward better overall integration, with issues like overlay and eclass
> priority and sharing being worked out.
> Now Gentoo does seem to be at that "magic" 250-ish person mid-size
> organizational cap, has been there for some time, and hasn't seemed to
> get past it.  OTOH, few organizations do tend to get past that, Debian
> being the commonly mentioned FLOSS community exception, so Gentoo isn't
> alone in that regard.  In fact, there's many organizations that would
> LOVE to be dealing with that problem as long as Gentoo has been.  Maybe
> we'll ultimately get past it, maybe we won't and we'll just have to learn
> to manage at the 250-ish size we are.
> Perhaps the biggest mark of improvement for me personally has been that
> (as I recently hinted in a post to the docs list) I'm actually thinking
> about becoming a dev again.  For some months, I had lost the motivation
> and reasons I might wish to do so, but now it's back.  I'm certainly
> grateful for the folks that stuck around thru the bottom, and yes, that
> IS a marked improvement I'm glad to see. =:^)
> So anyway, we seem to disagree on what's happening with Gentoo, but I
> really do see improvement, and think it's a shame to have people leaving
> for the lack of it, just as things from my perspective seem to be turning
> around.  But, regardless of whether you choose to stay or go, and that's
> of course a decision you must make (recognizing that people do sometimes
> need a time away, ideally to return refreshed and revitalized, ready to
> take on new challenges), you did say you may be back if you see that some
> of these issues have been addressed.  Based on that, if indeed the
> changes I am beginning to see continue, plan on that return, 'cause those
> changes are coming. =:^)
> --
> Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
> "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
> and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Probably should not have responded,
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmc...@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)

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