On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:06:29 -0700
Denis Dupeyron <calc...@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Michał Górny <mgo...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> > Well, maybe it's because you can talk to Python team, discuss and not
> > get ignored by them.  
> We've already established the same is true for the games team. I'm a living
> example of it and I can't imagine I'm the only one.

Good for you. So... ignoring majority is fine as long as you can prove
that they don't ignore one of their old fellows. Good.

> > Unlike games team members who believe it's best to
> > ignore certain developers.  
> I certainly hope we can still ignore abrasive developers since it's been
> proven many times that it's the best way to deal with them.
> So, you don't answer my question. Or rather, you answer with a specious
> statement. Since you're being unusually shy I will say what you're trying
> hard not so say. There are actually first-class projects catered for by
> first-class developers, and those can set rules like the mandatory use of
> an eclass and actually enforce them. Then there are second-class projects
> and developers who can do the same as long as it doesn't bother the
> first-class people. Second-class developers, often working quietly and
> steadily, not wasting their time on mailing-lists like I just did, can see
> their projects trampled over at any time for the mere reason that they were
> trying to keep their business in order, just like first-class developers do.

Now you are trivializing the problem. I wasn't talking about mailing
lists. I was talking about explicit questions, requests, pings. Mail,
IRC, Bugzilla.

If you get bug from the Council asking you what to do... don't you
think it would be fair to reply? Of course, you could say 'mgorny
opened the bug, I'm going to ignore him'. But the fact is, this is
not some kind of 'quiet, steady work'.

This is an explicit attempt of ignoring everyone with differing opinion
by delaying things. Sure, you can disagree. But it's different to
discuss disagreements and reach a consensus. And it's different if you
silently ignore disagreeing opinions and make them wait months for
a single reply, hoping to stall them from having any effect whatsoever.

When was the last time games project got a new member? Where is that
'premiere Linux gaming platform'? What about all these users? Why were
we exposing security issues for almost 10 years?

So we're the bad ones in your opinion, troubling the little closed
team. We want to have some influence, bad us. We should just keep quiet
and let us be ordered. Stand out of the line -- and you're a problem,
you're abrasive developer, you should be ignored.

Best regards,
Michał Górny

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